lucky777s

Nobody watched the NY/DET blowout I guess. Surprised nobody has mentioned this. Given the popularity of the DHoward thread I will put another question out there to see how you feel about Darko.

Andre Aldridge said that Detroit is now willing to part with Darko. They pretty much need to trade him now or lose him to FA when he is restricted, because they need big $$$ to resign BenW. Someone will outbid them on Darko and they just don't need him now.

John Thompson and Charles Barkley say BUST. He hasn't gotten better playing with Wallace, Wallace, and Dice then he is never going to learn. Not a player. Larry Brown and now Flip have gotten nothing out of him. Very valid points.

On the other hand his height is legit, his scoring touch seems legit, and you have the hope that he can put on muscle as he gets older. He should be able to get rebounds just from his height and reach. At a minimum he should be as good as Brezec or Krstic in my opinion.

Right now he is still thin and weak. Frye was pushing him around as he tried to set a pick and Darko couldn't hold position at all. He is still a project by any definition of the word. Likely a defensive liability for now. Does he love the game or is he a Kwame Brown/ Olowokandi type with no passion?

Would you give up Hoff plus our first round pick for Darko? What is the max offer you would give for him? DET has no immediate needs so our pick is pretty attractive to them I think. 50/50 the kid is a bust. Hoff is another big body to throw at Shaq the next two playoff runs.

Other big guys we could take a run at this summer with the MLE:

from 2004 second round: Varajeo with Cavs, PJ Ramos with Wiz, Ha Seung Jin with Blazers. Others available: Mbenga with Mavs, Pryz with Blazers, Nene with Nuggets. All decent big man targets we could get.

Kaman is up for FA with Bosh, as is Darko. Also that year are guards Delfino, Ridnour. And of course Mags is a FA that year.

These are all FAs that their teams may not want to spend too much on and we could steal. Teams can't even match these second round guys past the MLE.

Thoughts?

butr

No picks at all. Hoffa straight? Cap doesn't work, they'd have to add filler.

I say he is the bust of busts.

Bosh, Melo, Wade, Hinrich. Whoa.

Hoffa + filler would be my best. And that would not get it done. Great pick Joe.

trick

I would definitely like to see him here for Hoffa. Both are considered busts and have provided very little to their respective teams, but Darko is younger, more talented, and his potential is way above that of Araujo. By drafting him 2nd overall the Pistons would surely look to have a pick included in that proposal as well.

But if Hoffa is not in their radar, or the Denver is too important to give up even for a bust like Darko, what are our expiring contracts? The 2 Williams'? How about Mike James? Hopefully if we do look to ship out our expiring contracts we also get to free up some roster space as well.

Also keep in mind that if Babcock is looking to resign James, he may want to free up some capspace as well.

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speedythief

I wouldn't trade our pick along with Hoffa, not because Darko isn't worth it, but because he could leave our team without compensation. Not worth that risk, IMO, just like it isn't worth the risk to trade for any player who can leave after one year (if we include a pick in the deal) unless it is to clear salary.

Darko can still be a player in this league.

butr

Here is a trade that makes sense for both teams if the Raps see value in Darko.

Outgoing

Mike James
6-2 PG from Duquesne
16.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.1 apg in 34.7 minutes

Rafael Araujo
6-11 C from Brigham Young
2.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.6 minutes
Incoming

Lindsey Hunter
6-2 from Jackson State
No games yet played in 2005/06

Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.6 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.0 minutes
Change in team outlook: -17.2 ppg, -4.9 rpg, and -4.9 apg.

Detroit Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Lindsey Hunter
6-2 from Jackson State
No games yet played in 2005/06

Darko Milicic
7-0 C from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
1.6 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 6.0 minutes
Incoming

Mike James
6-2 PG from Duquesne
16.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.1 apg in 34.7 minutes

Rafael Araujo
6-11 C from Brigham Young
2.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.2 apg in 11.6 minutes
Change in team outlook: +17.2 ppg, +4.9 rpg, and +4.9 apg.


Hunter and James come off the books at year end. James adds to the championship push and they keep a big body for shaq and can let him go after next year.

If they want him Raps keep Darko. No picks involved if I'm the Raps.

The Truth IV

I haven't seen Darko play more than 2-3 minutes of gargage time here and there. I think he won't get another contract in the league - no talent. Physical tools are there, but no ability. Has he ever played well at any level? I don't remember hearing reports of starring in Europe, or in any junior world tournament. Can any of the Euro fans confirm?

lucky777s

I don't see DET doing it without the pick. They have been approached about Darko all the time. Other teams will gladly give up a pick in a weak draft. They used a #2 overall on this guy. They need a pick back.

With the DEN pick we could still get a shot at Sheldon. There are no C's with Darko upside in this draft so if we want a C the pick is not a big price to pay. Hoff is a bench player if the Raps bring in a starting C by FA. The gamble is that Darko could be bust, but like I said earlier I think Brezec/Krstic is his downside and thats not bad.

What do you think about the other guys available that I listed.

butr

I can't see a better deal for Detroit from ANYONE than what I quoted considering Darko gets paid pretty well. No one is going to give an Aldridge/Bargnani/Morrison/Gay pick for this guy.

I would scream bloody murder if our pick was included.

And aside, Shelden is going top 10.

shookem

Just looking at rosters, I think Mike James would be the only (besides Bosh and MoP) player that the Pistons would want from the Raps.

Why would you trade a bust with upside for a bust with no upside? Because he might leave at the end of his contract? Well the other guy might too.

It's not that I'm against adding Darko to the Raps, but I agree that our pick would probably be needed and that makes the deal a rip-off for the Raps.

For our 1st pick we should get something better then Darko or else keep it and scout hard (like they did last year). Babs made good picks last year, I don't think he's a bad drafter and has only been labelled that because of the Hoffa pick.

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lucky777s

Rudy Gay could be the next Trajon Langdon. Aldridge and Bargnani are PF's and the Raps have Bosh, Charlie, Bonner, Slokar, and Pape. Morrison is probably Szerbiak which isn't bad at all.

The early part of this draft looks like a minefield to me. One safe spot to step for every 4 choices. You probably get a safer pick after the top 7. Big bust potential before that.

Bargnani and Splitter look like the best picks to me right now.

I could easily see ATL giving up there number 1 pick for Darko. Or the Hornets. Or maybe even Chicago, who have 2. Maybe Boston. All have assets to offer on top of the pick.

Depends how DET see Hoffa. Pretty cheap bench guy with some upside. More size and toughness for the frontline. But the league opinion is probably bust.


If Denver is in the lotto their pick could easily be top 10.

shookem

Uhh, ok well just because we have blue chip players like Pape, Slokar and Bonner, we shouldn't even bother to look at Alridge or Bargnani? That's grade A boleny.

Besides, what do you think will get more value in the trade market, Hoffa or Alridge, Bargnani or Charlie?

We can draft another PF, piss ESPN off and play a thin frontcourt until somebody gives us a deal. Just because two of the top prospects in January are PF's doesn't mean we should jump off the path and not build through the draft.

* I'm not saying we should draft a PF, just saying we shouldn't be deciding this now.

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lucky777s

I understand the theory, but what you end up doing is creating such an imbalance on your roster that you can't play even HALF of your best guys.

Plus you slow down your rebuild while you play a lineup of out of position guys. You really have to have a draft day trade set up where you move Charlie or Bargnani/Aldridge.

You can't showcase guys who don't play. You can't develop guys that don't play. And you just cannot play Bosh, Charlie, Bargnani,Slokar, Hoff, Bonner, Sow.

Babs still uses the BenWallace comparison for Sow. We can't get PT for him already. To take the next step as a team the Raps need a legit C. If we get that player in FA we will have 7 PFs on our roster plus that C. That leaves 4 spots on the active list for the guard spots. Just doesn't work. Bosh and the starting C will take almost all the big man minutes.

This is why Memphis ended up just dropping Troy Bell and wasting a pick entirely.

Portland made a great draft choice in Jermaine ONeal. Didn't get much for him when they traded him. Indiana made a great pick in Brezec, didn't get anything for him. The team that picked up those guys later, as we would be doing with Darko, did very well.


Maybe the Denver pick will be enough for DET, I don't know. I just see other teams willing to offer more. And I don't see any C in this draft that comes close to Darko, who is only 19 by the way.

osman

wouldn't he still be a restricted free agent? We would be able to match any offer he receives. I would trade the denver pick as it seems denver is going to make the playoffs; but not our pick.

butr

I can't see anyone giving a top 10 for him.

As for not taking a PF, I think we learned our lesson not taking Iggy with a glut of swings. BPA.

Besides, the NBA is becoming more and more flexible in terms of position. We need PLAYERS, period.