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Petey · 02-01-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

"The good is that it prevents the possibly another trade deadline of inactivity, no doubt the largest factor in the decision to fire Babcock now, mere weeks from the February deadline. Jalen Rose and Eric Williams are players who have garnered interest from several teams, most notably the New York Knicks and Philadelphia 76ers, respectively. There is a good chance that management felt that Babcock was unlikely or unwilling to pull the trigger on a deal for one or both of them, and could not provide a suitable reason to keep them around eating away at the team's salary cap while providing little in the way of building for the future."

-TSN.ca

-Petey

Benis007 · 02-01-2006, 07:30 AM

i don't blame Babs for not moving Rose. I think that I speak for everyone on this board when i say packaging Rose with a 1st round pick just to pick up Penny ain't worth it.

i would rather suck it up and let him play out his contract than sacrafice a 1st.

lucky777s · 02-01-2006, 07:32 AM

This whole 'fear of making a trade' crap is a media creation. They think you can just force a great trade.

Rod Thorn said the other day that he has been wanting to make a trade but that it takes 2 sides. Because Babs is a rook that excuse isn't good enough for the press, so they create another reason.

Babs wanted to trade Marshall but the offers were worse than just letting his contract expire.

And with EWill not playing I'm sure he would take any expiring contract in return.

This is just more media bashing and groundless speculation.

This ATrain trade tells you that luck and timing are as important as anything. Hornets got desperate and wanted a vet big to replace Birdman. Scott knew ATrain well from NJ. They had cap space and a worthless Miami 2nd to throw at him.

Babs makes the exact same trade.

**speedythief** · 02-01-2006, 08:57 AM

Pretty safe to say that it was a major factor, lucky. If Wayne makes another move or two before the deadline it's a clear signal that they didn't trust Rob to make the changes they thought were necessary going forward. Rob was content to let the clock run out on a lot of our contracts and some of the people around and above him thought he needed to be proactive.

Not that I agree with that kind of situation. It clearly shows that Rob didn't have full authority to shape the roster as he saw fit, which is disturbing. Our only hope now is for our new GM to also take the Presidency so that his decisions are not easily overruled. The board will always have an opinion, and most good owners and ownership groups are involved with their franchise, but hopefully the dual-role combined with the man's experience will be enough to keep them as advisors and not people making demands.

lucky777s · 02-01-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedythief

it's a clear signal that they didn't trust Rob to make the changes they thought were necessary going forward. Rob was content to let the clock run out on a lot of our contracts and some of the people around and above him thought he needed to be proactive.

True. Its quite obvious they didn't trust Rob to make any more decisions.

But that is an entirely separate point. Has nothing to do with Babs being 'scared' or 'gunshy' as the press were pushing out there. Rob was more than willing to make a trade that he felt was good. Peddie and the boys just didn't agree with Rob's definition or judgement of 'good'.

MLSE board and Peddie read this crap and seem to believe it. That's the big problem.

I question Babs decisions as much as anyone. And I'm not sure I wanted him spending our cap space in summer 2007. But firing him now was still the wrong move. Not without being certain that you have a better man ready to move in and take over. Upgrading is OK, but you don't just get out of your car in the middle of the highway and hope to find a better one at the very next exit. You shop around and research before you get rid of the old car. Maybe it just needs a tuneup.

Wayne was already here overseeing Babs and reporting to the board. He could have worked more closely with Rob at the deadline and been given approval power. He was supposed to help groom Rob.

Benis007 · 02-01-2006, 11:19 AM

what chips is he holding on to??

i don't see teams breaking down our door for anyone but CB4.

TRON · 02-01-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lucky777s!

Has nothing to do with Babs being 'scared' or 'gunshy' as the press were pushing out there. Rob was more than willing to make a trade that he felt was good. Peddie and the boys just didn't agree with Rob's definition or judgement of 'good'.

I read a quote from Indiana GM Donnie Walsh that mentioned patience as one of the most important attributes of the best GM's around the league. I think that Babcock IMO made a diligent effort to an almost passive attitude after a VC trade, that attitude might have cost him his job.

I'm not trying to debate the merits of the trades being proposed to Babcock and whether they were good or not, but the inactivity dealing with Donyell last year might have scared the some on the board that the same thing might be repeated this year with MJ, Eric Williams and Jalen.

butr · 02-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benis007

what chips is he holding on to??

i don't see teams breaking down our door for anyone but CB4.

I quoted Wayne from the G&M about some back and forth discussions about EW. There are trades to be made out there that Rob did not make. Might he have? Maybe. But he didn't.

Benis007 · 02-01-2006, 01:13 PM

My thoughts on Babs inactivity is that you can't make trades just to make trades.

Realistically this lineup has been hit with a wrecking ball year after year, and until there is some sort of continuity, we can't expect to progress at all.

Players that were on the team when CB4 got drafted: Mo Pete, Jalen Rose, and Alvin Williams.

no_free_baskets · 02-01-2006, 01:59 PM

i think the problem was that babcock was so lowly regarded by other gms, (with the drafting of hoffa, the vc trade and his numerous gaffes in the media) ppl were just giving him lowball offers over and over again...

i mean, what do u do when u think someone isnt a very good gm? you try to rip him off too...babcock wasnt that dumb to take their lowball offers but obviously, the line of communication btwn the two parties dramatically decreases when dialogue like this occurs... babcock doesnt want to talk trade with someone trying to rip him off, and the other gm doesnt want to entertain serious trade talk because he feels like he can still rip babcock off...this is where i feel babs inability to pull off a trade stems from...

at least now with embry running things, hes established and has the credentials so that when trade talks do occur, the other gm will know not to pull any funny stuff and eventually give more serious offers as trade talks progress...

im not exactly enamored with embry as gm, but i do feel a lot more confident having him on board then having babs running the ship, so good riddance to babcock and his silly earplugs...

Junkyard Dog13 · 02-02-2006, 12:21 PM

Keep Rose just deal Eric, unless a decent C can be obtained for Rose.

Stay as far away from NY, I dont wan't any of thier cancer on Toronto.

shookem · 02-02-2006, 02:49 PM

The board doubting Babcock's abilities going through another trade deadline is the best reason I've heard for him being fired.

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