Team Mao

A lot of talk recently has been centered around the Raptors not needing any more young players and instead they should be focused on bringing in veteran players. Many people are suggesting that we trade away the #1 and one of our young players for veteran players. I'm of the opinion that the Raptors aren't at a point where they should be so concerned with filling the rosters with veterans. Here's why?

1)The core of our team (Bosh, Villanueva, arguably Graham) is still really quite young. These are the players we are building the franchise around and they need time to develop and gel as a unit. If we start to bring too many veteran players in, these players will have their playing time cut back and have less opportunity to develop as players and as teammates, especially in crunch time situations. If we bring in veterans to act as leaders, the young guys on the team aren't put into situations where they need to be the leaders of the team. I think we need to create a situation where the young guys need to step up and take charge, since they are the future of the franchise and they will be the guys who we need to be leaders in 3-4 years when the team will really be in a position to seriously contend in the east. I'd rather see these guys learn to be the leaders even it means sacrificing some short term success, than see rent-a-vets come in and be the leader for a season or two then fade away.

The idea of bringing in vets suggests that we are just a piece or two away from being contenders, which isn't true at all.

2)The new CBA is really set up in a way that the best way to acquire talent is through the draft and trades. The only 'star' player I can think of who has switched teams through free agency in the past few years is Steve Nash; Arenas left Golden State for Washington before the new CBA came into effect, and stipulations have been added to the agreement to ensure a similar situation doesn't happen again.

So, let's look at the draft situation. Last year we did a great job in the draft and hopefully this year we'll be the same. The rookie contracts now are great for owners because the players are on the cheap for their first four years (two if they're horrible players), then they become restricted free agents. This means that as long as the team is willing to pay up, then they are able to keep their players; with the drafting team being able to offer longer deals and the max contract being set by the CBA, this makes it even easier for teams to keep the players they draft. And if the team has no intention of keeping their restricted free agents, they can threaten to match, force a sign and trade, and still walk away with some assets in the deal (see the Johnson-Diaw deal). So first round draft picks are very, very valuable nowadays.

Trades involve two teams, both teams want some value in the trade. Right now, the only valuable pieces that Toronto has to offer in a trade are the team's young players who constitute the core of the team. If we want to have stability, we need to keep these guys together and have them develop together. So these three guys and our #1 pick are the pieces which the team has which will net a nice return, do you want to trade them away for someone who is 28 just for a few extra wins? Someone who will be 31 or 32 when Bosh, our franchise player, is hitting his prime? Personally, I would rather have all of these guys hitting their mid-20s prime at the same time and having played together for a few seasons.

Right now, we just don't have anything to offer. We need to keep acquiring players through the draft, developing them and then deciding who to keep and who to we can use to trade for those missing pieces in a few years when we are legitimate contenders.

3) As far as free agency goes, this offseason looks like it will be as bad as last year with decent players being way overpaid by desperate teams (Larry Hughes, Bobby Simmons, Damon Jones, etc,etc, I won't mention Jerome James because that signing was due to mental illness). Please don't let us be one of those desperate teams. I like BC's approach (assuming the Garbasjosa signing is true) of bringing in quality euro guys who will be considerably less expensive than their American counterparts.

My suggestion for acquiring talent this offseason: trade the pick to get multiple picks and a young player (see draft day swap-er-oo 2 on the trades board where we get pachulia, and the 12 (Rondo) and 15 (Carney) picks and dump Williams and Hoffa). Where there isn't a lock number one, it looks like a draft where you can get good talent in the teens. After a few seasons, decide who to keep and who to deal, bring in the vets and seriously contend.

Crossword

Well, to answer your question, yes. Sure we can get good players through the draft and from Europe, but really how reliable is that? We lucked out and got the #1 pick this year, but that doesn't mean we'll be in the same great situation for next year's draft. We have to work with what we've got, and while our core is still young, there's no reason why they shouldn't be improving as a team, both on the court and on paper. Now we shouldn't overhaul our roster or anything, and perhaps even if we do sign a couple veteran guys we'll still be a top-5 pick team, but we can't lose forever. If we throw away another season, we're just asking guys like Bosh to leave.

Team Mao

Why does everyone assume that keeping a young core means losing?

Look at the Bulls the past few years, they haven't been going far in the playoffs, but they're in the playoffs. Who are their 'vets' over the age of 25? No one. Yet everyone is calling them the next force of the East. They're not building for now, they're getting ready for 2 or 3 years from now when the Heat and Pistons are finished.

Their young players have been forced into leadership roles and they're doing fine with it. The young players are the ones taking the clutch shots and getting that experience.

Is the draft and europe risky? yeah, but not any more risky than inking a guy to a big contract that lasts five years. The draft is pretty low risk now in the new CBA if you ask me, two year cheap tryout, followed by two more cheap years if you like the guy and then you hold the cards at the end of the rookie deal. I like those odds over Joel 'Knees' Przybilla or Nazr Mohammed at 7 or 8 million a year.

Next year, even without bringing in any vets, I say that this team is in the hunt for the playoffs. The East is really up in the hair after the top 5 teams.

Crossword

We shouldn't throw our money away, no doubt, but even with the roster we'll have in October, without any free agents, isn't a sure thing for the playoffs. If there's someone who can plug a need, why not go for it? The 2007 class isn't much better, if I'm not mistaken, with the exception of some RFA's.

If we just stick to the draft and random guys we're bringing in from Europe, I doubt we win 30 games.

trick

I'd say we're still in "get as much talent while you still can" mode. Just this past season Mike James was arguably our second best player (arguable with Mo Pete), and to be honest these guys would be 3rd or 4th options at best - probably bench players - on championship contention type teams.

The way I see it, when people say they should sign Vet A and Vet B, they're primarily signing them on need:
"let's sign Vet A to this amount because he can bring us toughness inside."
"let's sign Vet B for his defence."
But what will this really get you? A few more wins? Hoping these vets can somehow overachieve to what they've done in the 5+ years they have been in the league? Have we not learned anything from the Grunwald era?

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shookem

I agree, the organization needs to acquire talent from mangement down to third string PG. We've seen this happening since we knew VC was gonna leave.

I'm all for pursuing which ever avenue allows the team to get more talent. If that's a trade for Ridnour and swapping picks, than use BC's Euro connections to get Tiago Splitter to come out, great. If that's drafting Alridge or Bargnani, that's cool too.

When I look at the Bulls though, where talking about two or three more lotto picks and a much more talented and well coached bunch.

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Team Mao

The example was more along the lines of youth given leadership roles on the team and not forcing veterans into the situation. The team is growing together and all the key roles are filled by players under the age of 25-26, all acquired through draft or trades, with a few cheap bench pieces through free agency (ie Songaila). If we were to swing a deal to pick up 2 picks and a young player, then we'd have young, talented players at all positions. Plus, IMO Bosh and Villanueva will be one of the better forward combos in the East in a few years.

In terms of coaching, I couldn't agree more. Sam Mitchell needs to hit the road if the Raptors want to be serious about winning, but around this board people are convinced that Sam is the only coach in the league capable of motivating players.

Divine Spammer

There are other forces on the rise, and they might be as strong as the teams dominating the East right now.
When LeBron gets a good team around him, he might close the East for years.
The Bulls will get some high draft picks from the NY deal with addition to a good signing or two.
The Bucks with Redd, Bogut and Ford can, perhaps, be a force too.
Miami isn't over until Wade is done, etc...

This season the team has taken a step back, and now we should make to steps forward IMO.
The core of Bosh, Charlie, MoP, MJ wasn't that bad.
It took them a month to get used to each other, and then they played reasonable basketball for half a season before Chris got injured.

Assuming that there won't be too many injuries, our young players should improve their game.
Bosh needs to refine his game, Charlie and Joey have work to do but they have displayed progress and potential during this season.
Calderon, I believe will start the next season more adjusted to the NBA level and hopefully with a better shot.
Mo Pete is in his prime and will be in contract year.
If we get an asset for MJ, pick a good prospect and sign a couple of solid players with fair salaries to feel some holes, I don't see any reason why the Raps won't make the playoffs.
Next year more money will be of the books. Another step forward.
Perhaps we can make some noice at the playoffs.

As I see it, things aren't that bad, we have cap space, young talent and a lottery pick in this draft.
When Sam finishes his contract, BC needs to find a better coach and bring him in.
I don't think Sam is exploiting all the potential of this team. Not at all.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't want BC to sign a bunch of overpaid veterans right away.
However, I truly presume we can make progress and still rebuild.
We don't need to sit deep in the league's dungeon and gather prospects to become a contender.

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pmac34

the bulls had vets off the bench (A.Griffin,A.Davis) last year.
we already have a vet like that in Derrick Martin.
maybe AD if he returns.
i disagree with the whole "we need a veteran" thing. I dont care what our record is next year because we will not be contenders for the championship and thats what its all about, right?

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TRON

We don't need to fill the roster with vets, but we should definetely surround our young guys with more experienced players that they can learn from

plus, vet doesn't have to mean someone that has played in the league for 6-8 years, it could be a young player that is in his 3-4 year.....so you still get some upside, but on top of that you get a proven performer and valuable NBA experience


right, but look at the bulls the previous five

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narrator

How? Bosh is the acknowledged leader of the team and that'll be unchanged no matter who the Raptors add. They aren't going to add any superstars (as you pointed out, the CBA is designed this way) but they can add role players, which the Raptors need. They need players with experience in winning situations to bring a winning attitude to the club. Adding a veteran isn't, repeat isn't, going to take playing time away from those who matter: Bosh, Villanueva, number 1 pick, Calderon, perhaps Graham. Anyone added to the Raptors will know that Bosh is The Man, so leadership is not in doubt. Anyone added will be his lieutenant with the upside that it will give the Raptors more wins (hopefully) and, perhaps, playoff experience, which will be invaluable (even getting swept by a superior team shows players what they have to do to improve and avoid that humiliation again).

Bosh appears to be hitting his prime now which means it will last for a while. Give Villanueva a little bit of time (because he improved dramatically over the course of the season) and he'll hit his prime very soon, too. Add some vets and have a team that's together over the course of several years. Not two or three players that are your core, but a team, that plays together and succeeds together and loses together and experiences the heartbreak of playoff losses and the thrill of playoff victories together. Consistancy (see: Spurs, San Antonio) can do wonders.

Free agency is not the answer for adding franchise-type players; it's the answer for players who know their roles (bench players, leadership positions, etc.). Adding the number 1 pick (a player who, hopefully, won't take his entire rookie contract to develop) adds to the core without breaking the bank and leaves space to add a couple more players, if necessary, at a later date.

As I've said before, the goal should be to make the playoffs or at least come close. In any event, the Raptors HAVE to take a step, or steps, forward. This is essential for the future of Bosh in Toronto and keeping the fans happy (steady improvement gives both hope and committment).

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bigbabyjesus

IMO, No. We need more youth. We have a good young core right now, but it could definitly get a lot better.

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Team Mao

Agreed, right now more young talent is what we need.