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Old 11-15-2006, 08:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

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Originally Posted by trick
Sam just needs to stop staying "we just missed shots" after every loss.
I do agree with this... the message needs to be to work for better shots... which is not easy in itself.
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

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Originally Posted by Victor Page
I think most of us agree the Raps are a 30 to 35 win team. They'll get there one way or the other (either by starting slow and coming together late, or by being consistently mediocre throughout).

Mitchell will be fired unless they make the playoffs - and Colangelo will bring in his own guy (everyone knows that)

The talent just isn't there - they have one excellent piece (Bosh) and a bunch of question marks.

Anthony Parker is not an NBA talent - that is clear now. Fred Jones has some game but is selfish and can't shoot all that well. MoPete's shooting is erratic as always and his D isn't what it was 3 years ago. TJ Ford is still young and shows flashes of competence - the jury is still out.
I agree totally agree with you but your last sentence should be "TJ Ford is still young and shows his incompetence..."
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

I think Parker has been pretty good for us this season and I think he's been more consistent than Jones or Peterson.

Garbajosa is the guy that makes you pull your hair out.
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:01 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

so the raps have a bunch of euro players, a lot of bench players, no real starters except bosh an bosh aint so great now. i guess we can blame the coach for that. wats next move the team to the usa cause toronto fans want a winer?
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

I'm not sure how people can still defend Sam as a coach. He's been a head coach for more than 2 seasons and he still hasn't implemented anything even resembling a structured system on offense or defense. You can not win with the 'shoot as much as you can' approach. If you watch Phoenix (the run n' gun team that everyone is trying to emulate) there is structure in their offense and they actually have a playbook. Sam does not have a play book, he's got nothing.

Obviously, whatever he's doing is not working. People always point to his ability to motivate and get the most out of his guys. Give me one successful head coach that doesn't have the ability to do that, the difference is that they have motivation ability plus the ability to design a system and make in game adjustments. Sam was a guy that made his career on hustle and hardwork, and he seems to think that that is the key for this team, obviously it is not working.

If you a company is losing money, they'll look at it and maybe turnover some of the employees and see if that helps. But at some point in time, when the employees aren't making a difference, they need to look at their manager. Make sense?
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

i am not saying that he shouldnt be fired, but what kind of message does that send to the team? hey we are 2-5 might as well give up even though we have 75 games left. If he gets fired wait until we have had some more time toghether or wait till the offseason. Plus if we get rid of him we have to bring someone else in and probably learn new schemes. It is easier and better (IMO) to keep Sam for this year and then decide what to do with him in the offseason
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:17 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibe
so the raps have a bunch of euro players, a lot of bench players, no real starters except bosh an bosh aint so great now. i guess we can blame the coach for that. wats next move the team to the usa cause toronto fans want a winer?
Mitchell has been around for a season already. The criticism that he's getting now has been because of his performance up to this point. Although the Raptors' roster isn't as good as some other teams, they still underachieved last year and looks to be on the same path this season. Chris Bosh is playing like a top 3 power forward in the last several games, I don't think people would complain about his play. TJ Ford is a real starter, he just needs time to get use to the team. Besides those 2, the raptors have enough talent to be as good as the Hornets last year, that's why people are frustrated now.
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Old 11-15-2006, 10:52 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

They should fire Sam Mitchell. He just doesn't seem to be able to handle the responsibilities of a head coach. Sam is a good motivator and that seems to be a job that an assistant should do. IMO, Sam at the moment, should strictly be an assistant. He doesn't have the play calling skills as other coaches in the league. Even Sam's excuses for his team's play are lame. For ex. "just missing shots" or "cant teach rebounding and defence". come on, the coach's primary job is to teach how to rebound and play defence. Those two aspects are probably the only things you can teach your players about.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:06 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

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Originally Posted by Kahlon66
They should fire Sam Mitchell. He just doesn't seem to be able to handle the responsibilities of a head coach. Sam is a good motivator and that seems to be a job that an assistant should do. IMO, Sam at the moment, should strictly be an assistant. He doesn't have the play calling skills as other coaches in the league. Even Sam's excuses for his team's play are lame. For ex. "just missing shots" or "cant teach rebounding and defence". come on, the coach's primary job is to teach how to rebound and play defence. Those two aspects are probably the only things you can teach your players about.
I think you have the role of the assistants and the head coach reversed big time.
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

no, you don't fire anyone now. i don't care if krusty the clown is coaching this team- we need to hold ourselves accountable, even if we know/think that we have a poor coach. we have to understand that the coach is only a coach and is not on the floor. i've always seen the professional coach as more of an illusion than a substantive contributor: he/she's not doing anything. he/she has some value, but among the first steps is to understand/concede that his/her value lies not in executing plays. that's the players' territory. the players have failed to date; you don't want to give them an excuse for their failures. that would bring a long-term effect that is often irreversible.

but...

if i had to suggest something for sam mitchell, it might be for him to sit down (literally) more often. this is part of the same idea- you don't want to bring too much attention to the coach right now. this team is trying to bring itself together as a wholly functional unit. but the longer that the players look towards the sideline for instruction, the longer it'll take for them to finally understand each others strengths, weaknesses, tendencies and attitudes. sam has an audible criticism for everything right now, and our players are classy enough to hear his thoughts- whether they're on the bench at the time or on the floor. at some point, though, i think he needs to pipe down and fade into the scenery. he might have valid points but that's not important: i think it's vital for these guys (the players) to figure it out on their own. there is a lot they have yet to learn, and a huge chunk of it will not come from the bench.

put simply: i think sam needs to stop talking so much to the team... for a little while, anyway. i'd place my primary focus on team building, on gelling, on players claiming roles and leadership, in an effort to get these guys on the same page sooner rather than later.

peace
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:17 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

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Originally Posted by Team Mao
If you watch Phoenix (the run n' gun team that everyone is trying to emulate) there is structure in their offense and they actually have a playbook. Sam does not have a play book, he's got nothing.
Agree, I was thinking this when I saw the Raptors against the Nets...

When I wrote about Messina (I just finished to see Benetton-CSKA at Moskow, Blatter against Messina... great win for the russians, but they have greater players) it's because I think Raptors don't play like a team: it's seem players on the court decide their own play.

You can be a great motivator, but coaching a basket team needs more than "Go and do your best mate!"

TJ Ford way of play is an example: he is not a good shooter, but his qualities are speed and pass; when TJ makes an unconscious shot Sam should put him on the bench. Be a good PG doesn't mean that you have to score, instead you must have great basket IQ, cutting defence with your penetrations to give open space for your teammates: but the cut must not be done at random, but according at play book.
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

It's not gonna get easier ever if we continue to play like this. No coach is changing that.
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

It might be good for the team and its future if Sam is let go at some point this season but I don't see much of a difference. The only upside would be to further our losing to gain a better draft pick and develop our young players to a greater extent. Since Sam is already losing and Bargnani is already one of the first off the bench, I don't see much of a difference. Since Sam is already paid to coach this season and has a pretty strong relationship with his players, I don't know if BC will pull the pink slip during the season unless things get really ugly.

Of course Sam could still turn this season around. People ***** and moan about the lack of a system but I think this team can still be very potent using Sam's system. We've seen it in effect but we're lacking consistency.

At the end of the day, there's no great rush. If any coach can turn the team around from this point, it would probably be Mitchell, not some new coach that would have to completely re-educate this young team on the fly. If we can turn it around, great. If we struggle, hey, that's great too - this is a new team that needs whatever experience playing together it can, win or lose - we learn from this season, build (through the draft, trades, free agency), bring in BC's coach, and go from there.

I've always proclaimed this as a win-win developmental season, even if I was a little optimistic at times. We either gel quickly and our rooks/sophs are highly competitive or we struggle and pick up another piece to the puzzle through the draft and let BC get to work on phase 2.

To win this season, we need our guys to make their shots. No, it might not happen but Sam does have a point.
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Time to Fire Sam

I never thought this team would be this bad.

But you know, when you think about it, the only thing better than missing the playoffs would be to stink horribly and get the #1 pick again.

Oden would make us instant contenders.

Maybe Mitchell CAN serve a purpose? Take us to the basement Sam!
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