Benis007

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...elo/index.html
great article written by Chris Mannix, band wagon has officially opened.

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JuniorNoboa

"It wasn't the most opportune time for Bryan Colangelo to be starting his new job."
"Problem was, there wasn't much Colangelo could do about it"

I know I flipped at BC a few months back (I think it was when we were 7-14), and I don't really have any problems anymore.

But this really was a pretty good situation for him:
1. All kinds of Cap Space available
2. Two Premier young frontcourt players gifted to him
3. #1 Overall pick

+ there was low expectations.

There was a lot of flexibility offered to BC when he came here. There was alot he could do to imporve the team ... which he has.

But I do not concur that this was a really difficult situation.

Compare this to what Rob Babcock came into.
1. No coach.
2. High expectations
3. A star player who wanted out.
4. A senile advisor in Jack McCloskey who had been running operations.
5. Coming in less then a week before the draft, and having to rely on a senile man, who the Raptors braintrust trusted. Araujo was McCloskey's pick.. no doubt about it.
6. No Cap room available.. no flexibility.
7. A veteran laden team with garbage contracts.

I think BC had it pretty good.. and he knew it... that's why he came here, he saw some opportunity to improve things... he would have never taken this job back in the summer of 2004 if we had offered it to him.

I am not saying that Babcock is an equal of BC.. he is not. I am just demonstrating that this was not a dire situation like it was when Babcock took over.

MonkeyBallZJr

Indeed it would have been interesting to see how BC would perform had he been in Babcock's position, a lot of things would've been completely different but could we say with certainty that BC could've handled the VC situation better then Babcock did? I can't really say cause VC's stock was pretty low. We can conclude however that a lot of BC's 'success' so far has to be owed to what Babcock did.

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MVP_23

Babcock= Vince Carter Trade ....END OF STORY

JuniorNoboa

Vince Carter's Quitting + Vince Carter Injury Issues + Vince's Poor play on the court + Vince's refusal to go inside + Vince ghost defence + Vince Fading on every shot = Vince's lack of value = Value obtained in Vince Trade

Do you see Babcock's name in that equation... his hands were tied.

Benis007

agreed.

makes me wonder about what else was on the table.

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JuniorNoboa

Just to make things clear:

Even though
1. I flipped at BC earlier in the year (admittedly, jumped the ball incorrectly on that one)
2. I have always been a Babcock apologist.


I am still very happy that BC is here instead of RB... he has done a good job, and I think he is the type of GM that could take us to the next level.

But the franchise moving forward was in much better shape when Rob left, then when GG left.

Once some cap room was cleared, I bet you this was a job alot of GM's that like "reasonable" and "Fair" challenges would be interested in.

A 21 year old star + Future Big Man All Star + top 5 pick + cap space of 10M.

It's not that stunning that BC took this - it was a fair challenge of his intellect and abiltiies.

ozzzymandius

That's pretty funny stuff!! Not to mention that its happening all over again now with the Nets. Except some nights he still comes out to play and does ... but sometimes he doesn't and they are all starting to notice that now. Its good to see the shoe on the other foot for a change
HAHAHAAAAA .... ok that's not nice. But it feels so good to hear them complain about him. Give it one more bad season and all they'll see of him is .. HAHAHAAA

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Flush

BC made the types of moves that most GM's would have been afraid to.

He's been near perfect thus far. The only mistake, is arguably, Fred Jones. But let's keep in mind he still comes pretty cheap.

Knick_Killer31

I know this isnt that big of a deal but if it wasnt for that crappy VC deal we wouldnt have lots of money and Rasho wouldnt be here and probably many others i guess.

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shookem

If RB took the job knowing he was going to be a puppet, he's a worse GM and character then I thought.

BC hand a pretty nice hand of cards to play when he came to TO but to his credit, he's made the most of them.

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JuniorNoboa

If you expect a GM to have any significant responsibility on draft night in ANY organization after he has been on the job for only a few days, and all scouting sessions be they indiviudal or in camps have been completed then you don't realize how things work.

Was Babcock a puppet on draft night...no, but he did not have significant responsibiity throughout the entire leg work process, given that he was not employed. And it makes sense that he was not heavily involved on draft night.. it makes sense that the Raps gave this responsibility to someone who was there all along and who worked with the scouting department through the criticql April-June period.

I have no clue how you can say this impacts his character. He probably had a right of refusal on the Araujo pick... but I don't blame him for taking the recommendation as is.

speedythief

I think Babcock was as much a victim as he was a villain.

The organization hired him to build around Carter when clearly that was the wrong direction to be moving in. Had they given him the freedom to do what had to be done right away (the summer, before his trade demand was public) the team could've been rebuilt in a similar way to how it is today.

For all the bad things people talk about, he did get us Villanueva (Ford) and Calderon, cleared Carter's salary, made way for the Rose trade that cleared even more salary, etc..

TRON