I think Toronto fans (and media) are over-reacting to Carter "mocking" the fans or mocking Bosh or whatever you want to call it. Why are we reading his lips and interpreting facial expressions during the game? Who cares?
What's important is that the Raptors won going away, and held Carter to a pathetic scoring total. I guarantee Bosh couldn't care less what Carter may have said.
The "MVP" chant, to my mind, is just a token of appreciation for CB4 and how he's lifted the Raptors back to respectability after years of drought. I don't think fans actually believe he's the MVP over Dirk, Nash, etc...
(not this year anyway - if you see the Raps win 50+ games one year, then we'll revisit the subject).
Toronto fans are less knowledgeable about the game that most NBA cities - there's no doubt about that. After you get past the hard core fans (including those on this board), there is very little basketball IQ in the ACC on a given night.
It's like an NHL game in San Jose - the fans love the team, but didn't grow up with the game, and can't tell you what a hipcheck is or why a team would decide to pull its goalie.
It's the same at the ACC - when a Raptor gets called for an offensive charge, and the ball goes in the hoop, the fans applaud the "score". When 2 points don't go up on the board, they all look to each other and ask "what happened?". It's the same thing at Blue Jays games - when a Blue Jay grounds out to make the second out, and a runner advances to third on a fielder's choice, the crowd applauds the batter for advancing the runner (the same play draws no applause in Boston, New York, etc....).
Re: Did I just read this properly from the Nets board?
Its observational. Two people can go to the same sporting events in Toronto and come away with entirely different impressions of the fans they met and were around.
A lot of factors play into it as well. If you sit in the $10 seats are you more or less likely to find knowledgeable people than you are if you sit in the $250 seats? Is the difference only aesthetic?
As far as I'm concerned, if the games are selling out, the fans care. And I'll take 20,000 star****ers over 14,000 basketball aficionado's any day.
First of all, I don't agree with him that Toronto fans are less-knowledgeable about basketball than those in American cities. But since he thinks that that is true... Not all the fans following the Raptors will have fantastic basketball IQ. Remember, many of them only caught on this year because the Raptors have improved so much. It takes time to build up basketball IQ. It doesn't just arrive overnight. The important thing is that there are many people out there willing to go to the games. If the Raptors continue to improve and grow with each coming season, the fans that are there watching now will eventually learn more about the game. So, over time, the fans who are not so knowledgeable about the game will know have good basketball IQ.
Plus, just because the country is hockey-oriented, it doesn't mean that the fans who follow the game know little to nothing about basketball. How is Victor Page so sure that the majority of basketball fans in the States have a good basketball IQ?
Less knowledgable, as a whole? Maybe. But worse fans? Hell no. It's pathetic when teams like the Heat can win the championship, but their notoriously ****ty fanbase, at least those who go to games, can't even fill the seats until halftime.
My dad has become a passionate Raptors fan this year. He hardly knows nothing about basketball, but while I lived at my parents home for about three months as my new condo was being built, he watched the games with me (I assumed out of the fact that I was hogging the TV).
He still has the "shoot the ball". "shoot the ball" mentality, and gets angry with every miss. Since I moved out in January, he still watches almost all the games. Hell the other night he called me up right after the Bulls game, and on Wednesday didn't even bother watching the Montreal Canadiens game which is usually his passion... instead he wanted to see the Raps crush Vince and the nets... he told me was disappointed that they won't play till next Wednesday.
My dad is 60 years old, is not knowledgeable of basketball, but has alot of passion and energy about the game. So what if there are a higher number of these type of people in Canada **. And why does it matter...
** That being said the fans on message boards are hardcore fans so those without any common sense such as VinceDunkedonzo, I have to point that out to you.
what's interesting is that this season, you've been able to actually feel the growth. i never thought it would happen that way. i mean, you've always been able to compare past to present in every market (including our own), and expose the way it's grown over time by doing it like that, but the change this year has been noticeable (imo). the passion/interest/'knowledge' has grown before our very eyes. i didn't think that that would/could ever happen anywhere for any sport, but that's exactly what's happened this year in canada for basketball. it's cool.
i guess it must have something to do with the team's success- obviously. after all, you have only so many idiots like myself (and you, too) who are optimistic enough to watch long stretches of losing basketball. wins seem to generate interest more easily. and now that we're winning, it's exploding. i don't think we should complain about how early we are on the proverbial curve- because it is early, no question. you have to start somewhere.
My comments were in response to a post that asked whether Canadian fans are less knowledgeable basketball fans than those in the US. As a Canadian
that has attended college and NBA games in several US cities, my conclusion was that US fans are more knowledgeable (not any less passionate, or loyal, or stupid, just not as familiar with the game).
I used the comparison to hockey to illustrate the difference between fans that grow up with a sport (played the sport avidly as a kid through late teens and maybe continue to play recreationally) versus just watching highlights and the occasional game.
Most of us on this board fall into the former category (hard core b-ball fans, probably played the game at least recreationally and have followed the sport closely for years). However, in Canada, we are only a tiny minority (check the Raptors TV ratings for proof).
There is a tangible difference in the crowd reactions at the ACC vs. any US arena. For example, when the Raptors have a foul to give late in a half, and commit the foul to force the opponent to run another in-bound play, the ACC crowd rains "boos" on the ref. In Detroit, for example, most of the fans would remain silent.
Don't get me wrong though - Raptors fans are better than Pistons fans (the ACC is 80% full even when the team is crap while the Palace was a ghost town in the late 1990s when the team was lousy).
My dad has become a passionate Raptors fan this year. He hardly knows nothing about basketball, but while I lived at my parents home for about three months as my new condo was being built, he watched the games with me (I assumed out of the fact that I was hogging the TV).
He still has the "shoot the ball". "shoot the ball" mentality, and gets angry with every miss. Since I moved out in January, he still watches almost all the games. Hell the other night he called me up right after the Bulls game, and on Wednesday didn't even bother watching the Montreal Canadiens game which is usually his passion... instead he wanted to see the Raps crush Vince and the nets... he told me was disappointed that they won't play till next Wednesday.
My dad is 60 years old, is not knowledgeable of basketball, but has alot of passion and energy about the game. So what if there are a higher number of these type of people in Canada **. And why does it matter...
** That being said the fans on message boards are hardcore fans so those without any common sense such as VinceDunkedonzo, I have to point that out to you.
That is really interesting.
My little cousins (16, 14 and 11) all played hockey and still do, however when it comes time to ask daddy for tickets to a sports game they always choose the Raps.
Toronto fans are less knowledgeable about the game that most NBA cities - there's no doubt about that.
While I don't like to generalize, I don't think this comment is as insulting as many make it to be.
We all must remember that Basketball is still in it's infancy fase in Canada, and it will take decades before basketball is fully ingrained in Canadian culture.
right now, there is a really young demographic that watches Raptors games. These are basically all first generation fans, there aren't many families here with generation after generation that have watched and played Basketball, those who could pass down that knowledge to the young and teach them about the game.
but I'll tell ya something, from the time my kid can walk, I'll be teaching him the game of basketball and he'll know more about basketball by the time he's 10, than most of the suits that sit courtside at the ACC.
__________________
"and they aware of us though,
but we don't give a flying 747 **** though,
stayin on my hustle" -Nas
"To be honest, sometimes in this game, telling the truth is the best smokescreen of all." - Raptors GM Bryan Collangelo
on the FAN 590, apart from the Eric Smith and Paul Jones there is very little basketball knowledge from supposed "sports guys". If anyones heard a post game Raps show where Norm Rumack acts as a replacement, you can see that if a supposed "expert sports radio talk show host" knows next to nothing about the game, what will the average Canadian know??
To many Canadians only one sport exists, but not to worry, they should be slowly dying out in the next the 20 years and will be replaced by the next generation that will view the sport of Basketball as something much more than a sideshow.
__________________
"and they aware of us though,
but we don't give a flying 747 **** though,
stayin on my hustle" -Nas
"To be honest, sometimes in this game, telling the truth is the best smokescreen of all." - Raptors GM Bryan Collangelo
While I don't like to generalize, I don't think this comment is as insulting as many make it to be.
We all must remember that Basketball is still in it's infancy phase in Canada, and it will take decades before basketball is fully ingrained in Canadian culture.
right now, there is a really young demographic that watches Raptors games. These are basically all first generation fans, there aren't many families here with generation after generation that have watched and played Basketball, those who could pass down that knowledge to the young and teach them about the game.
but I'll tell ya something, from the time my kid can walk, I'll be teaching him the game of basketball and he'll know more about basketball by the time he's 10, than most of the suits that sit courtside at the ACC.
Good explanation. And I agree with you. There are people who know their stuff and there are those that are learning. I'm glad people are learning and that next generation of fans will grow the game and the Raptors fanbase. And that's a very, very good thing.
__________________
"If you are reading this then this warning is for you. Every word you read of this is useless fine print is another second off your life. Don't you have other things to do? Is your life so empty that you honestly can't think of a better way to spend these moments? Or are you so impressed with authority that you give respect and credence to all who claim it? Do you read everything you're supposed to read? Do you think everything you're supposed to think? Buy what you're told you should want? Get out of your apartment. Meet a member of the opposite sex. Stop the excessive shopping and masturbation. Quit your job. Start a fight. Prove you're alive. If you don't claim your humanity you will become a statistic. You have been warned."
Did I just read this properly?
Did I just read this properly?
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