SickGame

Way to ignore my whole post, good job. You took the introduction of my post which had no stats and no real argument and used that as a quote? You do realize that I clearly explained at the end of my post about why, in my opinion, Calderon's stats are inflated and misconstrued.
But no, really, good job.

__________________
Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play, before fiber glass, before parquet, before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J", and ballrooms were ballcourts where the renaissance played, before the hype and before the dunk, after the rhythm but before the funk, before the money and before the fame, before new school and old school, before school had a name. It was only a ball, and the soul of the game.

jibe

to: SickGame

i didn't mean to ignore your post with your stats an i only shortened it cause i was addressing my post for your comments. since you are good with stats i only wanted your comments on these other stats. can you comment on the stats i found?

as for your explanation here:

i can agree with you on that but jose does change the style of play an the other 4 players seem to do so much better than they did with tj at point.

just look what happened in the 4th quarter in the minesota game when jose came in an blew them out while tj couldnt get the job done for 3 quarters. how do you explain that?

SickGame

You want to take one game as an example?
Well then I could provide two games and just simply claim that T.J. is the 'clutcher' of the two players:

How do you explain Calderon dissapearing in December and March while T.J. tore it up, willing his team to victories. You want examples in December? Fine.
Buzzer Beater against the LA Clippers
Overtime (8 points I think it was) against Portland

But that's not my argument. I'm not going to just list off games where T.J. has won it for the ball club.

You make this claim that (and I quote) Calderon changes "the style of play and the other 4 players seem to do so much better than they did with tj at point."

So much better? Really? How do you figure? I mean how can you claim such a thing?
So what you're essentially saying is that with T.J. at the helm, the team plays mediocre and average basketball and it isn't until Calderon comes in that the team plays head and shoulders over the other team. So that's how the Raptors got their record?
Because in reality, logic prevailing by using your statement, that is what you're saying.

That's completely false and you know it. There have been so many times where Calderon has come into the ball game and the team went flat and has lost leads. The same can be said about T.J. How is Calderon such a better fit?

In relation to your stats, I'm going to steal a paragraph from my post in the "Garnett on Smitch" thread.

To continue on with that point. Why do we get better looks? Because of the adjustment the defence must go through in order to deal with the difference of play. Calderon changes speed, momentum and the manner in which he attacks opposing defences. He's an effective point guard, but don't discount the fact that what he brings to the table is influenced by what Ford does.

Why did he lit up the spark in the Minnesota game. Because Ford was being covered quite well by Minnesota, and they had settled into a rythm on both sides of the court because of Ford's play. Calderon disrupted that and the game's style changed. Yes Calderon played well. He's a good point guard. But I think his stats and his sucess is heightened by the pace Ford sets.

In the end, both systems work effectively because it feeds off each other. They're so different in their styles that the opposing defence has to now take another 5 minutes to get used to style of play after having spent so much time figuring out Ford (or Calderon) etc...

This is why we're successful. T.J. simply starts the game and plays more minutes, therefore facing the majority of the criticism.

__________________
Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play, before fiber glass, before parquet, before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J", and ballrooms were ballcourts where the renaissance played, before the hype and before the dunk, after the rhythm but before the funk, before the money and before the fame, before new school and old school, before school had a name. It was only a ball, and the soul of the game.

jibe

SickGame .. you could be right, but lets watch the next 4 games an the playoffs to see how well tj performs at pg. i hope his jump shot is falling cause we need it.

do you recall the many games that smitch yanked tj in the middle of the first quarter an put in jose cause tj just plain stunk ???

SickGame

Not since December, no not really.
Can you prove what you just said?

__________________
Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play, before fiber glass, before parquet, before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J", and ballrooms were ballcourts where the renaissance played, before the hype and before the dunk, after the rhythm but before the funk, before the money and before the fame, before new school and old school, before school had a name. It was only a ball, and the soul of the game.

jibe

no not specifically .. just an accumulation of impressions over the season that i recall.

do you think that tj has improved substantially from the beginning of the season to the present? i dont think he has mainly cause his style of play is not effective for halfcourt pick an roll plays. hes too light an gets pushed out easily an a broken play with tj scrambling.

count the number of broken pick an rolls with tj in the next 4 games cause thats how the opposition will beat us on defence.

Junkyard Dog13

ohh those days where just horrid Vc slackink, Bosh at C Alvin at PG with bad knees.

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Leafs fan since 88
Mets fan since 98

lucky777s

Our success comes from moving the ball. Nobody can deny that Calderon provides better ball movement to the offense on most nights. That is not 'hating' on TJ to say that.

Here is my 'favourite' TJ play:

TJ pounds the ball, pounds it some more, drives off a pick and gets trapped on the baseline with nowhere to go. He then makes a difficult pass to a teammate in no position to do anything with the ball. Then, if there is not a turnover, he runs directly to that player and gets the ball back so he can pound it some more. Drives me nuts.

If you haven't noticed this play repeat itself all year then you haven't been paying attention.

And Calderon's stats are hardly inflated. Because he moves the ball around more other guys get assists while Jose is running the show, unlike TJ who keeps the ball in his hands more of the time. And Jose has had to get by with some difficult lineups on the second unit with struggling players like Graham, MoP, FJones, and Hump. Sometimes he is out there with not much offensive help.

jibe

spot on Lucky 777s ... why cant the tj lovers see that and refusing to admit reality?

i think that tj would fit better playing behind nash who prolly wont make it to the end of his contract cause of his bad back. the phx suns are shopping for a run an gun pg like tj an he would do much better than playing raps euroball style of play.

SickGame

Why do you make up such crap?
His bad back? Really? Last time I check, he hasn't missed a single minute because of this supposed bad back.
The Suns are shopping for a run and gun point guard? Really. That must be why they signed Barbosa to a contract as well as Marcus Banks right?

I literally despise reading your posts.

__________________
Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play, before fiber glass, before parquet, before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J", and ballrooms were ballcourts where the renaissance played, before the hype and before the dunk, after the rhythm but before the funk, before the money and before the fame, before new school and old school, before school had a name. It was only a ball, and the soul of the game.

cv3bandwagon

^Where dose there have to be TJ lovers and Jose lovers? Why do you have to chosse which is better and make the other seem like dirt? Attempting to make TJ look bad dosen't make Jose look any better.

In fact it's a defense mecanism called projection where you take the undeseriable traits of yourself and portray them onto others compensating for the undersiable traits that deep down you understand you have.

SickGame

Way to generalize a player's style of play based on a few plays. T.J. can't drive, beat his man to the rim, hit jump shots from the top of the key. He somehow manages to get 8 assists a game by throwing the ball in the hair and hopes someone just jumps and puts it in the basket.
What you described does happen, but to simply make it appear that that is all he does is ridiculous. You only notice the plays he does wrong but when he does something right, you forget all about it.
Also, Calderon plays with players such as Bosh and Parker most of the time since they hardly sit and last time I checked, Dixon shoots the ball quite well and so does Graham (as of recent) and Humph makes his high percentage shots. Calderon also plays with Bargnani alot.
Way to generalize once more.

__________________
Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play, before fiber glass, before parquet, before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J", and ballrooms were ballcourts where the renaissance played, before the hype and before the dunk, after the rhythm but before the funk, before the money and before the fame, before new school and old school, before school had a name. It was only a ball, and the soul of the game.

lucky777s

As for TJ's shot attempts.

HIs points to shots taken differential is on the low side for PG's at only +2. Most of the quality PGs have a +3 or better even if their FG% is lower. They get to the FT line more. Guys like Nash are +6 , Billups +5, Baron +4, Paul +4, Tony Parker +4, Roy, Hinrich, and Ellis +3, etc. So TJ should probably be taking fewer shots since he is not an efficient scorer.

And more notably for me, other Raptors like Anthony Parker is only getting 9.4 shots per game despite playing almost all his minutes with TJ and shooting 47.5%fg Why is he getting 3 shots less per game than TJ when he is clearly a better option?

And its not so much total shots taken that bothers many Raps fans. Its' the final minutes of games when TJ stops passing entirely and thinks he is a big time scorer that annoys us. Especially when he just does not finish well in the lane and throws up wild shots.

TJ's .403 shots per minute is also pretty similar to the .419 shots per minute MJames put up last year when he was called the biggest chucker of all time by many Raps fans. And MJ's percentages were incredible. So 'chucking' is a subjective term I guess.

JuniorNoboa