Thread Tools

Display Modes

**bigbabyjesus** · 08-03-2007, 01:44 PM

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

. Laaame.

icehawk · 08-03-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

KG is not an inside player. He is a jumpshooter. We can guard him fine. And as an O rebounder he is below average. Below Average. Ranks 26th in the league, which is very low considering only 30 teams and each team will have a leading rebounder. Most of his boards are defensive. So he won't hurt us there as much as guys like Mikki Moore, Brendan Haywood, Dwight Howard, AL JEFFERSON, David Lee, Jeff Foster, etc. Even Bosh is a better O rebounder.

Nobody has to double KG so he doesn't open up easy shots for the others unlike a Shaq or Duncan.

So I don't see the big concern. We have a bunch of guys that will work much harder on D over 82 games than Ray and PP as well with Parker, Delfino, Calderon, Dixon. Most nba stars take a lot of plays off during the regular season, especially on D, which is part of why the Raps are a very strong regular season club.

Plus the Celts need to lower their turnovers dramatically and I don't think Rondo being the main PG will accomplish that. Can't score when you turn the ball over.

And what about how our strength on O matches up with their weakness on D. Shouldn't that be worrying Boston?

They could be dangerous in a series if all 3 get hot, but any club in the league can say that if their top 3 players are going well. Raps have the balance to score 100 every night on every team. Boston has to prove they can put together an 8 man rotation for a full 82 games to even make the playoffs. Are they going to try and play uptempo in the high 90's or slow the game down to high 80's-low90's range? We don't even know that yet.

The Celt's may yet add the pieces to make them a legit contender but right now they don't have enough to get the job done imo.

One of the most biased posts I've seen in awhile. Since when did we become an elite defensive team who doesn't have to worry about 3 All-Stars torching us?

Oh, I forgot... KG is a jump shooter so let's not worry about him. Are you kidding me? He's also a match-up nightmare and defensive monster; Bosh is going to have a tough time and Bargnani will just get flat out abused.

Add Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to the mix... Who's going to guard them? Parker may able to hold one of them to 20 points on a good night, but what about the other? Graham, Delfino... Jason Kapono? LOL.

Celtics are going to fill their bench. They've already signed Eddie House with only a small part of their MLE and they still got more to spend.

Truth34 · 08-03-2007, 11:06 PM

Can't wait till the first Sunday in November.

lucky777s · 08-04-2007, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehawk

One of the most biased posts I've seen in awhile. Since when did we become an elite defensive team who doesn't have to worry about 3 All-Stars torching us?

Add Paul Pierce and Ray Allen to the mix... Who's going to guard them? Parker may able to hold one of them to 20 points on a good night, but what about the other?
Celtics are going to fill their bench. They've already signed Eddie House with only a small part of their MLE and they still got more to spend.

Oh, where to start?

1. How is stating that the Raps will have a better team D than the Celts in any way imply that the Raps will be an 'elite' defensive team. Only someone who thinks the Celts will be a GREAT defensive team could even reach that conclusion.

2. How many points per game do you expect these 3 all stars to score? Didn't you notice that AI and Melo saw their scoring averages go down when they played together? You think having 3 guys used to being the center of a system will be better than that?

3. Do you think all 3 all-stars are going to shoot high percentages every night? If only one of PP and RA are on that night then you put your best defender on the hot shooter.

4. Eddie House? are you serious? now I'm scared. He's basically the equivalent of Juan Dixon.

5. Here are KG's line the past 3 seasons versus the Raps

7/18 24pts 9reb 3TO O BS
7/23 17pts 10reb 2TO O BS

9/15 23pts 19reb 0TO 0 BS
5/11 15pts 12reb 2TO 0 BS

and in the Spree/Cassel/Wally year

9/27 23pts 15reb 5TO 1 BS
9/15 20pts 14reb 4TO 0 BS

FG% 42 16 TO 1 BS and I believe the Raps won most of those games including BOTH in the season KG had his most success with Spree,Cassel, Wally, etc.

TRON · 08-04-2007, 12:47 PM

We can look at stats and analyze them to death, but one intangible that I don't think has got mentioned is the fact that Boston has 3 players that can make plays when it counts the most.

Thats what all stars do, down the stretch when the game is on the line, when a crucial bucket is needed.....Boston can go to three players that can litteraly create their own shot.

Now to contrast that, since the Raps don't have a true go-to scorer, we have to depend on ball movement and pray that we're having a good shooting night. We seen how this worked out to 47 wins in the regular season, but little success in the playoffs.

also note, how in the playoffs, when NJ went through their funks they had JKidd to carry them through cold stretches, as well as the series cliching last bucket where RJ put his head down and bullied his way to the bucket. Stars make plays when they count most, that's why thier paid the big bucks.

so maybe, on days when the Raps are clicking they can run through the Celtics, but in a close game that will be decided by a bucket or two I'd have to give the edge to Boston.

icehawk · 08-04-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

Oh, where to start?
1. How is stating that the Raps will have a better team D than the Celts in any way imply that the Raps will be an 'elite' defensive team. Only someone who thinks the Celts will be a GREAT defensive team could even reach that conclusion.

Does anybody remember our defensive woes last year? Garnett is an all-defensive player and Pierce is also a good defender. They also have Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo, both good defenders at their respected positions. How many decent defenders do we have? Garbajosa is our best big defender, Parker is decent on the perimeter, but after that there isn't that much left. Delfino may turn out okay but the jury is still out on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

2. How many points per game do you expect these 3 all stars to score? Didn't you notice that AI and Melo saw their scoring averages go down when they played together? You think having 3 guys used to being the center of a system will be better than that?

Of course not, but I guess if you stuck LeBron, Wade, and Duncan on the same team it wouldn't be too bad because their scoring averages wouldn't be so high. Please. All three of these guys can score at will, especially on a team with mediocre defenders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

3. Do you think all 3 all-stars are going to shoot high percentages every night? If only one of PP and RA are on that night then you put your best defender on the hot shooter.

The thing is, when one of these guys are hot, you better believe Parker isn't going to shut them down. Furthermore, the fact that they have 3 guys who can score 40 when hot just makes me scared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

4. Eddie House? are you serious? now I'm scared. He's basically the equivalent of Juan Dixon.

They only signed him for a small percentage of their MLE, and he's a decent bench player. Needless to say, they're filling their bench.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

5. Here are KG's line the past 3 seasons versus the Raps

Past 3 seasons? We're looking at two different teams here. Bosh hasn't even averaged 14ppg in the past two seasons versus the Wolves so he must suck, right?

TRON · 12-17-2007, 02:12 PM

just thought I'd bump this old thread as Boston has been as good or better than many people thought would be. What surprised just about everyone is the way Doc has got this team to play Defense, leading the league in opponents PPG.

I think there was some homerism on display in this thread that would of rivaled Chuck Swirsky.....props to Seifer and icehawk your opinion was right on and you deserve some props even tough you got flamed

I love our team but I think it should be clear to all now that....

Star power > Depth

lucky777s · 12-17-2007, 04:54 PM

Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now. That has to be a surprise to everyone. I think they are top 2 in the league defensively. Scoring from the big 3 most nights is just average, not spectacular.

Most teams take time to gel defensively but they had it going from the start.

seifer0406 · 12-17-2007, 05:47 PM

I really don't know how anyone could've expected crappy defense from Boston after they acquire KG. I mean, he has only been one of the best defenders in his position for like the past decade, just slightly below Duncan.

I particularly enjoyed icehawk's last post, it's like he just traveled through time to tell us the truth. Better team D? check. Big 3 torching us? check. Big 3 torching us while shooting around 50%? check. Eddie House knocking down buzzer 3s? check. Raptors trying to cover KG with Rasho/Hump/Bosh/Moon/Bargs and failing miserably? check. This is just comedic gold.

"KG isn't an inside player" lol, I can't believe we couldn't find anyone to guard a jumpshooter.

lucky777s · 12-18-2007, 06:57 AM

Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.

As for the big 3 'torching' us? KG and PP combined for 34 points on 33 shots in the last game. Ray did not play. That's torching?
KG had O FTA, only 8 reb, and 0 BS. They are not why we lost.

The previous game the big 3 combined for 54 points shooting a great percentage. That averages 18 each. Lots of games the Raps have top 3 scorers at that level. But again the Raps shoot close to 40% and lose by a mile.
KG only had 6 reb in this game in limited minutes and 1 BS. Celts got to the line 30 times. Role players put up 58 points against us. Raps had no Bosh or Bargnani, and of course no Garbo. That's 3 of our top 8 from last years team. So it was no contest.

The only part I was dead wrong about was KG not playing inside. Doc Rivers has him in the low post for most of the game. I saw that in pre-season and was impressed. I mentioned that in that game thread. This is not how KG has played in recent years offensively. He is buying into a system and doing what it takes to win.

seifer0406 · 12-18-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.

As for the big 3 'torching' us? KG and PP combined for 34 points on 33 shots in the last game. Ray did not play. That's torching?
KG had O FTA, only 8 reb, and 0 BS. They are not why we lost.

The previous game the big 3 combined for 54 points shooting a great percentage. That averages 18 each. Lots of games the Raps have top 3 scorers at that level. But again the Raps shoot close to 40% and lose by a mile.
KG only had 6 reb in this game in limited minutes and 1 BS. Celts got to the line 30 times. Role players put up 58 points against us. Raps had no Bosh or Bargnani, and of course no Garbo. That's 3 of our top 8 from last years team. So it was no contest.

The only part I was dead wrong about was KG not playing inside. Doc Rivers has him in the low post for most of the game. I saw that in pre-season and was impressed. I mentioned that in that game thread. This is not how KG has played in recent years offensively. He is buying into a system and doing what it takes to win.

Seriously, just stop.

Did you even watch those games? If you watched them, did you understand them? Our guys couldn't cover any of the big 3, Ray Allen to a lesser extent, it was so painfully obvious. Boston's offense almost always begin with one of the big 3 creating an instant mismatch on whoever we have guarding them. That leads to our defense scrambling to help which creates plenty of scoring opportunities for open shooters everywhere. Don't just read the box scores, watch the games. The last 2 games were pretty much over after the first quarter, so don't pride yourself that the Raptors only allowed their big 3 to under 20 a game when most of the game were garbage minutes. It's just ridiculous reasoning. When Kevin Garnett gets the ball and our defense collapse on him leaving Rondo open every single time, in your mind Rondo is the one torching us knocking down those wide open 17 footers, not KG who orchestrated the whole play.

77 and 84 points? Did the concept of great team defense just escape you completely? Do you not know that the Celtics are currently the best defensive team in the league statistic wise and they are especially effective against jump shooting team? Did you not see the Raptors not being able to even get a pass inside the 3 point arc? Are you blind? I can't even comprehend why the Hawks and the Grizz have anything to do with it. If any of those teams have this kind of defense, obviously we won't beat them.

I don't even know what to say. Their team is freaking 20 and 2. What more can you say to defend yourself.

lucky777s · 12-18-2007, 11:09 AM

If you bothered to read just a couple of posts above you would see that i said "Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now" and "I think they are top 2 in the league defensively" so your little rant is rather pointless.

Also, in the game thread I posted that BOS defended the pick and roll better than almost anyone in the league based on that game.

As for stars orchestrating all the plays for their role players I think you could use that argument for every team in the league so I don't see how applying it to just BOS makes any sense. PP and KG had off nights scoring the ball last game having to take 33 shots to get 34 points. That's a fact. You are just trying to gloss over that with BS. Most of Rondo's points were on layups beating Calderon off the bounce as the announce team pointed out and suggested he adjust to. Were YOU not watching.

And why did PP play 41 minutes if 'most of the game were garbage minutes' as you say?

In the earlier game we were without 3 of our top 8 players from last year. You don't think that was a factor in that game? This game we were essentially without 3 again with Ford, Garbo injured and Bargs nowhere near back to form.

Boston is playing great. Never said otherwise. Their system is working beautifully and their stars have gelled quickly and played unselfish ball. Its almost unheard of for a team to change so drastically and play such great D so quickly. All anybody talked about in the summer was their O, but that is not why they are 20-2.

seifer0406 · 12-18-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

If you bothered to read just a couple of posts above you would see that i said "Boston's D is what is making them so dominant right now" and "I think they are top 2 in the league defensively" so your little rant is rather pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky777s

Look, in the last two losses to BOS the Raps scored 77 and 84 points. That won't beat the Hawks or Grizz.

Get your mind straight before you talk, because you're not even making any sense.

Thread Tools Display Modes

Thread Tools

Display Modes