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Loco de Laker · 01-30-2008, 11:43 AM

Ok, i know this is the Raptors forum and i like them as much as the next Canadian, but i need to be honest with everyone

CB4 puts up great Numbers, he is no doubt an All-Star, but i don't know if it's chuck and leo constantly screaming about how the ball has to go to bosh, or just his TERRIBLE play in the clutch time, but Bosh is more overrated than any other all star in the league.

The guy is extremely marketable in Canada, he is a big man with good talent and an even better attitude. But at the end of the day, the fact that he actually does the most retarded things in clutch time (like stand still for 15 seconds and then just shooting a brick) makes me believe he does not have it at all. I get almost all the Ratpors games on TV and trust me i have paid close attention, in the clutch time he ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, screws up. It wasn't just yesterday, it is all the time. Note the Boston came, he kept it close, but at the end of the day it was THE BEST PG ON THE TEAM who made the clutch play. He always makes the right decision and for some reason the ball hardly goes to him in the clutch. Hell, Kapono and AP are more clutch than Bosh.

Do people here actually believe Ford and CB can win a title, if Jose is not re-signed, oh man, this team will tank fast. Bosh must face it, he is not a clutch player, and i would never rule out trading him. Can people just become more honest and face the facts, the guy will never be a superstar, he is a good scorer and puts up nice numbers for 3 quarters, but thats all he is. Please SOMEONE AGREE!

NeoSamurai · 01-30-2008, 12:07 PM

Hes a solid star in this league, but as a player to rely on in the clutch, I dont like him. His skill set doesnt translate well in late game situations since hes not strong enough to carve out space in the post. We need that SG/SF who can create off the dribble and score through a multitude of ways - whether via the outside jumper or getting into the lane and on the line.

But I would also like to point out another thing which you didnt point out in your post which is a lack of quality bigs on this team. Bosh has too much on his plate right now - hes the main offensive and defensive big and is responsible for too much on the court for too long a period. Hes logging heavy minutes at the 5 spot for a player who is more accustomed to play the 4 spot (at least physically). Because of this, hes: 1) tired in late game situations and more prone to take that lazy jump shot, 2) just perform poorly in the clutch in general. Until we find someone to place at the 5 spot, in order to normalize the lineup, we will always see these type of performances from Bosh.

SkywalkerAC · 01-30-2008, 12:25 PM

for a big man, he's pretty much as clutch as it gets. check out his clutch stats. i'm sure they're right there with Duncan and KG. he gets to the line, he passes out of double teams, and he hits shots. he has misses and turnovers but so do the very best clutch players in the league.

anyway, we thankfully aren't a one man team and there are many ways for our team to get the job done down the stretch.

**ballocks** · 01-30-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkywalkerAC

for a big man, he's pretty much as clutch as it gets. check out his clutch stats. i'm sure they're right there with Duncan and KG. he gets to the line, he passes out of double teams, and he hits shots. he has misses and turnovers but so do the very best clutch players in the league.

anyway, we thankfully aren't a one man team and there are many ways for our team to get the job done down the stretch.

we play like we are, though, don't we?

anyway, i agree. i think chris' best attribute may in fact be his clutch factor. to argue that he doesn't have it on the basis of one turnover (or two or three- or five!) is strange. i don't know about his "last shot" but imo clutch is a lot more than that. for big men, clutch produces the last shot opportunity. i'm still looking for all the buzzer beaters that duncan and garnett have compiled over their careers. wade, vince, kobe, baron, chauncey are all guards. he may make #1 on sportscentre but i bet chauncey doesn't get to the line 10 times in the fourth, for example. chris doesn't dominate the last 0:30 but he quite often dominates the first 11:30. i don't think it's unreasonable to believe he'll take that up to 12:00, either. a 6'11" southpaw with an exceptional first step and growing respect from the refs- who knows where this is going? he may become the ultimate last possession big pretty soon. he just needs to believe in himself.

chris improves down the stretch of games (who knows why) and while i have quite a few problems with this team as currently constituted, his fourth quarter play is not one of them.

peace

southeasy · 01-30-2008, 02:12 PM

no, we don't... if you guys missed the last 10 games or earlier at full health, it was calderon, parker, delfino, ford before the injury, even kapono (lastnight @ Wiz) taking big shots, deep in meaningful games @ the final few of 4th Quarters.

Bosh at the beginning of the season with injury, was maybe opting for a long jumper then going to the basket.. but check the free throw numbers & open your eyes the last couple of games, we are not a one man team, we have 4-5 options down the stretch & Bosh who is now healthy is playing his heart out.

i'm a canadian, & i don't really think i'm bias at all, Bosh is nothing near overrated.. nobody talks about bosh, he hit a GIANT 3 ball in OT lastnight & he is constantly streaming to the line, his midrange game is not his go to in the clutch anymore... why are some of you so negative & blind to the fact.

NCR · 01-30-2008, 02:18 PM

Bosh is 23 and only getting better. He did score 37 last night and is averaging around 28 in the month of January. To even have the slightest problem with him is ridiculous. We should all consider ourselves very lucky to have Chris Bosh on the Raptors. He will probably drop 30 again tonight and make it look effortless.

seifer0406 · 01-30-2008, 04:03 PM

He's not going to win a game like how Lebron or Wade does, but it doesn't mean that you can't build a team around him. It's true that he didn't play that well last game during crunch time, but there are plenty of games that we won by having him dominate inside. If the Raptors ever win a title, it's not going to be an one man parade. Bosh is more than adequate of doing his part if and when the Raptors get there.

As for overrated, by who?
Here's a quote from Sam Mitchell

Quote:

"I look at the news. I look at Inside the NBA. I look at all these (NBA) programs," said the Raptors coach, "and no one ever mentions our name."

Quote:

"It's like there's one, two, three, four and then six, seven, eight, nine, 10, all the way down. People forget we're the fifth team," said the coach. "People forget we beat Boston in Boston, and they beat us in overtime at home. ... People forget we beat San Antonio in San Antonio. People forget we beat New Orleans."

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/297959

Nobody ever talks about the Raptors outside of Canada. Watch TNT, ABC, they rarely mentions Toronto when they talk about the East.

SkywalkerAC · 01-30-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballocks

we play like we are, though, don't we?

I don't know, do we? We are dependent on the guy but we play like a pick and roll team with shooters. We've seen the Raps as a true one-man-team and our current play is far from it. Didn't we just have 4 players score over 20?

RX · 01-30-2008, 04:28 PM

Bosh is pretty clutch, but in close-game situations he is always smothered and he shouldn't be the guy taking our last shot...he should be (and has been) used as a decoy to create space for someone like Calderon, Ford, or Parker to drive/shoot.

He's not "unstoppable" enough as a scorer to be relied in the clutch...some guys can guard him straight up without help...and he can't score when doubled...whereas calderon/ford can break down almost anyone 1 on 1 and get a more clear shot.

southeasy · 01-30-2008, 04:43 PM

yeah, seifer just supports my opinion.. who exactly overrates bosh? Nobody talks about him , or the team, At, All.

and it is not toronto fans since the majority of you are harder on bosh then i'd expect, which is not nescessarily a bad thing, shows we have great expectations for bosh, and what he is capable of doing.

i think it would be pretty stupid to say toronto plays like a one man team in any definition of the words.

narrator · 01-30-2008, 05:04 PM

Yeah, he's not clutch... That's why he had the stones to take and make a 3 last night when they were down by 6. He WANTS the ball at clutch moments. I like that. And he makes the right decision most of the time.

Benninsanity · 01-30-2008, 09:00 PM

I agree with you. Anthony Parker is the best scorer in Toronto. If it wasn't of his age he would have be our 1st option.

SkywalkerAC · 01-30-2008, 09:26 PM

AP was never a better scorer than Bosh is right now. Hell, Bosh gives a prime VC a run for his money in the scoring department. Vince used to drive me so insane when he'd have defenders so tight on his fading jumpers and he'd never, ever, upfake and draw the foul. CB4 does it pretty much every time a defender is overzealous.

OT- didn't AP's shot last night look identical to Carter's buzzer beater over the Celts back in the day? the release, the leg kick, the fade - the shot looked exactly the same from the same position. difference is that AP faded off the catch and VC faded off a dribble between the legs.

southeasy · 01-30-2008, 09:28 PM

difference between vince & AP

AP plays D & isn't a loser.

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