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B-Roy · 05-30-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballocks

it seems to be the same thing every offseason, and i don't know if that's a good or bad thing when it comes to tj ford: injury-prone players get overvalued. if you look around the league, the players more often bandied about in trades are stars in suits. in this thread, we have two of them: joel przybilla and tj ford. of course, toronto fans want to trade tj ford and land someone other than przybilla, while portland fans want to trade przybilla to get someone back other than tj ford (in this case jose calderon). coincidence?

it's convenient to do this in the offseason since nobody has any injuries to speak of and so managers can do a decent sales job by focusing squarely on talent- "ford's fast" or "joel can block shots"- but at the end of the day, the fact is that this game is not played on paper in the summer, injuries are indeed relevant. when it comes to tj ford, joel przybilla or anyone similar, imo, i wouldn't touch them with a flagpole myself. it doesn't matter how good they are when they play- because they don't play.

we compare jose and tj forever already, we can compare joel/nene/okafor and bogut, for example, but imo we waste our time comparing their skillsets. in many of these arguments, we know who we prefer already- and it has nothing to do with skill. at least in my world, it has to do with durability. tj ford is not durable, joel przybilla is not durable; to expect that to change overnight is like expecting time to start moving backwards. it may happen, and it would help if it did... but it probably won't.

i do hope we can move ford for an ac green-type, though.

peace

Portland does not "want" to trade Przybilla. It's just they're willing to offer him in order to get Calderon. Also, he's coming off one of his best seasons, missing only the last 5 games because of a broken hand. Yes, it's true that he's not very durable, but he's not even the centerpiece of a PDX/TOR trade.

Just to be sure though, I'm not trying to pursuade you to trade Calderon, because I don't think Toronto will.

southeasy · 05-30-2008, 01:11 PM

for a Calderon to Portland transaction to work IMO

the deal should/would not include toronto also giving up the 17th.

personally, i'd do a Calderon(s&t) + Rasho for Outlaw, Pryz (Raef expiring) & the 13th. can you even complete a sign & trade with a multi-player deal?

but for an almost borderline all-star point, who really will most likely not be traded, it's really hard to think about.

B-Roy · 05-30-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southeasy

for a Calderon to Portland transaction to work IMO

the deal should/would not include toronto also giving up the 17th.

personally, i'd do a Calderon(s&t) + Rasho for Outlaw, Pryz (Raef expiring) & the 13th. can you even complete a sign & trade with a multi-player deal?

but for an almost borderline all-star point, who really will most likely not be traded, it's really hard to think about.

I would do that if I were GM of Portland.

But I imagine some variant of that trade has already been proposed by Portland and turned down by Toronto.

butr · 05-30-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southeasy

for a Calderon to Portland transaction to work IMO

the deal should/would not include toronto also giving up the 17th.

personally, i'd do a Calderon(s&t) + Rasho for Outlaw, Pryz (Raef expiring) & the 13th. can you even complete a sign & trade with a multi-player deal?

but for an almost borderline all-star point, who really will most likely not be traded, it's really hard to think about.

That won't happen fo several reasons. A) Jose is not moving and if he was there would have to be one of three players on portland coming back that don't need mentioning. The least valuable of those is redundant to Bosh.

B) If BC is going to get a pick it will be in the top half of the lottery

C) This is a lateral move. BC wants to use expiring deals and picks to consolidate talent. This would give you a good not great swing, the most common commodity/position in the league and on the team. It would swap expiring deals and give you an OK big.

BC is not shooting for OK/mediocre/common. He has his allstar 4, his near allstar 1 all other pieces will be leveraged to get that 3rd virtual all star.

southeasy · 05-30-2008, 08:31 PM

oh i'm aware calderon will not be traded, & have stated so multiple times. i was just humoring the portland fans inquiring about it.

i also don't like trading a point guard who is arguably top 5 at his position for anything else other then another top 5(10) player @ his respective position

mo76 · 06-01-2008, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXshelbyGT

Guys - B Roy and myself both think Calderon would be a perfect fit in Portland. We're not saying he's not the pefect fit in Toronto! But we have some pieces to your puzzle and you have a piece for ours. This is why trades are made, Memphis/Lakers the exception

I have been going back and forth from Portland, Oregon to Vancouver, BC over the past eight years - and recently married a Canuck and have moved to the burbs of Vancouver (last summer actually). I even bought season tickets to the Blazers last season and would drive down to Portland to catch as many games as I could. In the Vancouver area, Shaw cable doesn't have NBA League Pass - so I ordered NBA TV/ Raptors Channel. Between going back and forth to Portland, I was able to watch several Raptors game during the season. Fun team! Ford's injury was terrible and I hope that he can come back at full strenth. If if he does, he's not the PG Portland needs along side Roy/Aldridge/Oden. Calderon would be however!

I myslef want to keep Outlaw - and I believe that Webster would make a great addition to your fast-pace game. The boy can shoot - and he's a leaper when he take it to the hole.

I do believe that (after watching around 15 - 20 Raptors games) a true center would benefit the team. Joel Pryzbilla is a very solid center with a great contract. And if you take on LaFrentz' expiring - you have options next year (but you'd have to give up Rasho's smaller expiring in return to make this work).

I think a trade of Webster + Pryzbilla + Portland's #13 pick + LaFrentz' expiring

for

Calderon + Rasho + TO's #17 has some merit.

But in my humble opinion, if you can move Ford for something worthwhile - I'd suggest doing that!

Let's see what Ford brings....and if it is not as valuable as BC is letting on - then consider our trade proposal!

(hey, its only between us fans anyhow!)

It doesnt matter if you convince the posters on this board (which you would never do with your lame trade proposals) Calderon isn't getting traded.
PS, the way you propose trades for star players for portlands spare parts is really annoying. I'm sick of hearing about outlaw/webster prysbillas expiring contract +32 pick for star players like prince +billups, and calderon. No FA's want to come to TO, so the cap room wouldn't mean ****. Why don't you propose some trades involving Roy or Oden? ***

MrJayremmie · 06-01-2008, 09:06 AM

Yea, just ignore him/her.

It seems like we on the Portland message board have a lot of people who enjoy making unfair trade proposals where we trade backup players for all-star level starters.

MOst of us understand that Calderon won't be traded, and we've let it go. And i highly doubt we are interested in Ford, lol.

Quote:

Why don't you propose some trades involving Roy or Oden?

i think you can answer this one.

Good luck on your team. I like Bosh and Calderon as the core of your team right now. A couple of moves and you guys are set. Probably a nice SG/SF, as you guys probably have most/all your role players in place.

billfindlay10 · 06-04-2008, 06:08 AM

Hoops hype has a bunch of links to stories that say there are 5-6 teams seriously looking at trading for Ford. It is also restated, barring a blockbuster type deal, that Jose will not be traded.

**roux2dope** · 06-04-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfindlay10

Hoops hype has a bunch of links to stories that say there are 5-6 teams seriously looking at trading for Ford. It is also restated, barring a blockbuster type deal, that Jose will not be traded.

Slightly off topic but i find it funny that Ford will get traded this offseason and more than likely the Bucks will trade CV. That trade really didnt work out that great for either of us now did it, although you have Calderon so its obvious why you would be looking to trade Ford. After witnessing first hand how delicate he is and how easily his next game could be his last now would be the perfect time to get rid of him capitalizing on teams desperate for a PG.

**ballocks** · 06-04-2008, 12:58 PM

this talk about ford's contract insurance is good news. i didn't know about it before. if his team is truly fully insured in the event of injury, that should avoid a major obstacle on the road to trading him.

at the end of the day, he's only an $8.5 million risk against the cap- not the payroll. that's a big difference. i'm sure there are more than enough teams willing to take on his deal now, whether he's injury-prone or not.

i might even consider keeping him if it were true. i was never a fan of the $17 million position (assuming jose gets $8.5 as well) if one of the two players was injury-prone. that was my problem. but in tj's case, it would only amount to ~$17 million if he were playing, which wouldn't seem that expensive anymore because when he's playing, he's pretty good.

peace

spuriousjones · 06-07-2008, 08:42 AM

have we talked about atlanta? they picked up bibby this year but i don't think he's a long-term solution for them. they could also use a shooter--seems like jj is their only outside threat (well, bibby, too)--and a vet bigman to team up with horford and smith.

this passes the espn trade machine:

to atlanta: tj.ford, rasho, kapono
to toronto: bibby, marvin williams

the hawks answer a lot of their problems while still having a big ending contract to give them leeway to retain smith and childress. toronto picks up a young stud wing in marvin and gets some pg protection in case roko isn't ready and even a just-in-case jose is lost as well as a big expiring contract. bibby should even be able to play some off guard.

Dee-Zy · 06-07-2008, 10:20 AM

Can we swap Marvin with Horford in the deal instead? I'd be all up for that.

Perhaps the Hawks aren't willing to give up somebody that can finally play the 5 for them.

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