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Sicky Dimpkins · 03-18-2003, 06:57 PM

Bull:

Give: "Jay", ERob, Dalibor Bagaric and a minimum of one of the following(1 or 2 or 3 work):
Trenton Hassell, Lonny Baxter, Roger Mason

Get: Harpring, Ostertag

Jazz:

Give: Harpring, Ostertag

Get: "Jay", ERob, Bagaric, and at least one(Jazz decide) of: Hassell, Mason, Baxter

Comments?

BigMike · 03-18-2003, 09:13 PM

That's pretty farfetched. As a Jazz fan, it's perfect. You get rid of <strike>OAFterFAG</strike> This type of language is not allowed... - L4L , the most worthless player in the NBA, and although you get rid of Harpring, Kirilenko gets to start at the 3 and production losses would be minimal.

In return, you get one of the most talented rookies in the NBA. He'd take over PG reigns next year and be the future of the team, and other good players.

Nothing but good happens in this trade for the Jazz...are the Bulls really that unhappy with JWill? Is that other guard (is it Crawford? can't remember) that much better?

Sicky Dimpkins · 03-18-2003, 09:48 PM

Well you're very kind in your comments on the Bull players.

You do know that ERob(a 3) has a good sized contract that lasts 3 more years right? A great athlete and an OK player when he's healthy.

Hassell(a 2) was a fan favorite LAST year because of his D. This year both his shot and D have gone downhill fast.

Mason(combo guard) was injured and is a bit of a mystery but seems like he'll stay in the league.

Baxter(a 4) shouldn't be as productive as he is. But he is! Go figure. Not great size or speed or hops but he somehow finds a way to produce.

Dalibor is tall, long, strong, cheap, young and worse than Ostertag.

All are bench players on a playoff team. No starters.

Basically it's "Jay" for Harpring plus the Jazz have a greater $ burden since Ostertag's contract only lasts 1 more year. He'd be fine as a backup for Curry.

I like it and the only other Bull fan that has commented on it did too. The Bull need a "Harpring" type of player.

To answer your question: Even though I was one of the few that didn't want the Bull to draft "Jay", I actually think he is better at running a traditional offense. He has shot poorly and perhaps more surprisingly turned some of his fans off by shooting his mouth off. Lately he's been coming in off the bench and has played much better. The Bull fans are all over the place in their opinions on the point guard situation. Depending on the game it's "trade "Jay"" or "trade JC" or "trade Rose" and then in the next it's keep the same.

Most think that one of them has to go however.

Basically by trading one of them there would be clarity instead of confusion in the backcourt for the Bull.

Thanks for responding.

Jazz player costs

Bull player costs

loyalty4life · 03-18-2003, 11:03 PM

Well, I think that the Jazz will pursue and get Andre Miller after this season, so they probably won't need Jay Williams. And from what I have heard from other Jazz fans, they really like Harpring and would like to keep him. He really compliments Malone and Stockton well, and he's their third scoring option they've needed for the longest time.

While I do think this would be a good trade for the Jazz, I think they're going to go after Miller in the off-season. We'll see.

**JazzMan** · 04-04-2003, 03:55 AM

I'd be a bit dubios as a Jazz fan. I know J-Will is good n all, but if you have a system that works, why change it?? Ostertag doesn't have much time left at the top, but we want to hold onto Harpring.

Lopez may turn out to be a top notch PG anyway.

Sloan has been reluctant to play young players in the past, so Baxter, Mason etc may not actually contribute much for a while.

You can keep Bagaric, thanks all the same.

Sicky Dimpkins · 04-08-2003, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SteveSmith_08!
Well, I think that the Jazz will pursue and get Andre Miller after this season, so they probably won't need Jay Williams. And from what I have heard from other Jazz fans, they really like Harpring and would like to keep him. He really compliments Malone and Stockton well, and he's their third scoring option they've needed for the longest time.

While I do think this would be a good trade for the Jazz, I think they're going to go after Miller in the off-season. We'll see.

Harpring won't be a compliment to Malone or Stockton next year will he? Are either of them coming back?

"Jay" is alot cheaper than Miller and makes more sense if the Jazz are going to "blow it up" and truly start over. If they are going to try to stay competitive then I guess Miller is the man but I'm skeptical he really wants to play in Utah.

Is it clear which way the Jazz are headed or do they have to wait for Malone/Stockton to declare their intentions for next year?

JoeF · 04-08-2003, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sicky Dimpkins!

Harpring won't be a compliment to Malone or Stockton next year will he? Are either of them coming back?

I think that the chances of Stockton retiring are about 50/50 now. If he doesn't retire he will be back. He will not go to another team. I think that there is a 90% chance that Malone will play somewhere next year. I think there is a 30% chance of him playing somewhere other than Utah. I think Malone will be back.

Quote:

"Jay" is alot cheaper than Miller and makes more sense if the Jazz are going to "blow it up" and truly start over. If they are going to try to stay competitive then I guess Miller is the man but I'm skeptical he really wants to play in Utah.

The Jazz aren't going to blow it up and start over. The organization is committed to winning and no team has successfully "blown it up and started all over" and returned to where they were when they started. Why do so many fans want to see teams tank it and try to rebuild when it still hasn't been sucessful even once? The Jazz have the longest streak of non losing seasons in professional sports and the second longest streak of playoff appearances in the NBA. They are going to try to rebuild through trades and free agency over the next two off seasons. Andre Miller has supposedily said he wants to and expects to come to Utah, his second choice. His first choice is supposed to be to stay in LA because he grew up there but it doesn't look like that will happen. Utah would be a good place for him because the Jazz system relies heavily on a pass first PG. He is a local hero from his college days at the University of Utah and would be worshipped by the fans. Miller hasn't done anything to help his value for next year and may not cost significantly more tham Williams. He may not cost much more than the 4.5 exception being paid to Matt Harpring and Donyell Marshall.

Quote:

Is it clear which way the Jazz are headed or do they have to wait for Malone/Stockton to declare their intentions for next year?

I think it is pretty clear what direction they are going from the fact that they signed Harpring to a long term deal but signed everyone else to short term deals. There are still big questions with whether Stockton and Malone will play here next year.

There are two players who IMO are untouchable, AK47 and Harpring. They will be traded only if we get a better player in return. While Williams may become a better player some day he isn't at the level yet that the Jazz would trade either Harpring or AK47 for him. Ostertag is available if we get a decent player but he has an expiring contract after next year so he has value to the Jazz. Deshawn Stevenson is available for equal value. Amaechi could be had for a week old baloney sandwich if it were allowed under the salary cap.
I don't like the trade and don't think the Jazz would be interested. Williams is the only player that is interesting. Harpring plus Ostertag's 8-9 million in cap space are too much to give up for Williams and some mysteries, disappointments and/or potentials.

Sicky Dimpkins · 04-08-2003, 12:35 PM

Now that's an answer!

The Bull are looking for a Harpring type wing and have a point to offer. That's why it was proposed.

More power to the Jazz if they can rebuild on the fly like the Pacer did.

Thanks for the insight.

**JazzMan** · 04-09-2003, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JoeF!

I think that the chances of Stockton retiring are about 50/50 now. If he doesn't retire he will be back. He will not go to another team. I think that there is a 90% chance that Malone will play somewhere next year. I think there is a 30% chance of him playing somewhere other than Utah. I think Malone will be back.

The Jazz aren't going to blow it up and start over. The organization is committed to winning and no team has successfully "blown it up and started all over" and returned to where they were when they started. Why do so many fans want to see teams tank it and try to rebuild when it still hasn't been sucessful even once? The Jazz have the longest streak of non losing seasons in professional sports and the second longest streak of playoff appearances in the NBA. They are going to try to rebuild through trades and free agency over the next two off seasons. Andre Miller has supposedily said he wants to and expects to come to Utah, his second choice. His first choice is supposed to be to stay in LA because he grew up there but it doesn't look like that will happen. Utah would be a good place for him because the Jazz system relies heavily on a pass first PG. He is a local hero from his college days at the University of Utah and would be worshipped by the fans. Miller hasn't done anything to help his value for next year and may not cost significantly more tham Williams. He may not cost much more than the 4.5 exception being paid to Matt Harpring and Donyell Marshall.

I think it is pretty clear what direction they are going from the fact that they signed Harpring to a long term deal but signed everyone else to short term deals. There are still big questions with whether Stockton and Malone will play here next year.

There are two players who IMO are untouchable, AK47 and Harpring. They will be traded only if we get a better player in return. While Williams may become a better player some day he isn't at the level yet that the Jazz would trade either Harpring or AK47 for him. Ostertag is available if we get a decent player but he has an expiring contract after next year so he has value to the Jazz. Deshawn Stevenson is available for equal value. Amaechi could be had for a week old baloney sandwich if it were allowed under the salary cap.
I don't like the trade and don't think the Jazz would be interested. Williams is the only player that is interesting. Harpring plus Ostertag's 8-9 million in cap space are too much to give up for Williams and some mysteries, disappointments and/or potentials.

Wow - I learnt a lot from that!

Let's hope Miller can do better than he did in LA though!

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