JoeF

Dragnsmke1

I still only see about 30 vicories for the Jazz this year...maybe 35

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JoeF

Dream on. The Jazz are no worse than last year when they won 44. They should have won closer to 50 games. There were 5 games against lottery team that they didn't show up for. They also lost 10 or so other games by 5 or less points. Those games could have went either way. This team has a little more fire and is healthier than they were last year.
How can you say they will drop 10-15 games? Where are they weaker than last year?

Dragnsmke1

Its not that they are weaker its that everyone else got better...They stood in place and lost Marshall.

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JoeF

First off if talent were enough Portland would probably have won at least 2 out of the last three titles and Sacramento would have won last year. Second everybody didn't get better. The Clippers got better. Clippers have injury and chemistry questions that are still unanswered. How did Seattle get better? How did Minnesota get better? Did Houston get better? Maybe If Francis stays healthy, the rookies contribute and they find some chemistry. Those are three big big ifs. Portland always has a chance to completely implode and fall drastically. With that team you never know.
Marshall for Harpring is a much evener trade than you think. The Jazz upgraded the backup PG. The backup PG was a huge problem last year and cost the Jazz several games. Rusty LaRue was teh backup for much of the year. SG is better if Stevenson, Cheaney and Harpring stay healthy. The C position should be stronger. Amaechi seems to be playing better and Collins will be better than as a rookie. Ostertag has shown some signs of returning to a contributing player. The SF position will be better with Kirilenko and Harpring. I think if healthy the Jazz are a better team than last year and should win close to 50.

Dragnsmke1

Pipe dream ma'an. Pipe Dream. Time will tell. Defend your squad to the end is what I say.

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JoeF

Why? What teams are really better and why? Where are the Jazz not better? Where am I defending my squad and not seeing reality?

Dragnsmke1

Reason 1: Kings
Reason 2: Mavs
Reason 3: Lakers
Reason 4: Spurs
Reason 5: With the trade for Miller (a starter for a 2nd string player) Even though They are hurt right now the Clippers. the NBA season is 82 games long.
Reason 6: Portland. They always make the playoffs with thier talent. They just cant play in the playoffs.
Reason 7: Minnesota. KG by himself is better than 4 of Utahs any given 5 starters.
Reason 8: Rockets. With a healthy Francis Mobley and Griffen The rockets are better than Utah and we havent even seen what Ming can do yet.
Reason 9: Pheonix. Dont sleep on this squad. Marion, Marbury, Hardaway, Johnson, Googs and Stodimire. Please...
Reason 10: Seattle. Hey they werent supposed to make the playoffs last year but GP wouldnt be denied.

That makes Utah cellar dwellers. After 20 years of playoffs the run had to end.

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BBallFan

I'd be absolutely shocked if the Suns finished with a better record than the Jazz... people always underestimate smart, fundamental basketball... and you can't get smarter and more fundamental than Stockton/Malone. Maybe if AK-47 makes Sportscenter a lot this year, people will think that the Jazz will make the playoffs.

I'm not sure if they're goign to make the playoffs or not... but if they don't, it's very, very close. I think that, barring injury, the Spurs/Kings/Mavs/Lakers/Blazers, and still probably the T'Wolves are locks for the playoffs, leaving the last two spots for the Clippers/Jazz/Rockets/Sonics to fight over.

The Clippers are very far from a lock for the playoffs. Talents one thing (and they have tons and tons of individual talent), but chemistry is another... and there's no guarantee that they can mesh so quickly, and it's also very likely that everyone's concern for individual stats for contract-years causes problems.

Dragnsmke1

Its not like the Clippers brought in a Center or small forward to score. They brought in a distibutor. How does chemistry come into play if hes not gonna be shooting unless nessesary and is happy with that role? A distributor always meshes quickly. Playing for stats is a two-edged sword. It can hurt the team or make them better. Just depends on what type of stats your plaing for.

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BBallFan

Actually, there's a chance it's a little bit different... Andre Miller is a pointguard that came from an offense where he dominated the ball. I don't think its in the best interest of the Clips if he does that in LA. However, Andre Miller has given every indication that he's smart enough to put the team first, so he probably won't make it a problem... but still, it's an uncertainty.

When only one player is in a contract year, he often tries harder and is more aggressive offensively. However, when a whole team is like that... it could cause problems.

I just think you're underestimating the benefits of being used to playing with certain players. The Jazz have that already, and the Clippers don't.

JoeF

These are the class of the western conference. Portland has a chance but is unlikely to join this group. No other team is going to join this group.
Yes. They have more talent and Miller was a great acquistion. I think they will be a 7 or 8 seed. They are injured, inexperienced and have several new players to integrate. The other question is how much of their talent will be there all season? They can't resign everyone so they will probably trade someone. Who will they trade, who will they recieve and will they be better or worse after the trade? I think experience is a big issue. Last year on Mar 15th the Clippers were 34-31, the Jazz were 34-30 and they were fighting for the last playoff spot. The Jazz went 10-8 but the Clippers folded going 5-12. Why will this year be different?
I will give you this one. I think they are the #5 seed.
They lost guards Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups and Felipe Lopez who were replaced with Troy Hudson, Rod Strickland and Kendall Gill. Does that make them better? Would you do that trade on talent alone? The TWolves were 30-11 at the halfway point last season and over the second half were only 20-21. Which team will show up this season? Will they be consistant?
With a Francis they were 26-31. That is hardly playoff material. That is a pretty big jump but it is possible. Without him they were a woeful 2-23. Is he really healthy and will he stay healthy. If he is healthy I see them as last years Clippers.
Maybe but I doubt it. I think they are a couple of years away. I don't think they are any better than last year.
They only finished one game better than the Jazz and they lost the season series 3-1 to the Jazz. The loss of Baker will affect them some. They have little at the PF to replace him. It is probably not going to be a huge drop but is still a drop.
That is 5 teams (LAL, Sac, SA, Dal and Port) I think are guaranteed to finish above the Jazz and 3 other teams (Minn, Sea and LAC) that are at the Jazz' level. I think the Sonics and the TWolves will drop some this year. I think the Clipper will move up. Houston and Phoenix will probably be in the hunt at least for a while. I have TWolves #6, Jazz #7, LAC #8. Seattle #9, Houston #10 and Phoenix #11. I don't think any of those teams will be far out of the playoffs. Memphis as #12 and GS in the cellar will not be in the playoff hunt. Utah will not be in the cellar unless they have major injuries.