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Old 04-15-2013, 02:09 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Originally Posted by ace93 View Post
Very doubtful. What conference would accomodate all their other sports out of the good of their heart while not benefitting from their marquee sport? If such a scenario were likely, more schools would be doing it and we'd have basketball only conferences, footbball only conferences and then different regional conferences for the rest of the sports.
We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.
$300,000 is not even remotely correct
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:28 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Has Davidson confirmed anything yet? It's odd that only Jeff Goodman reported on this and nobody else.
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Old 04-15-2013, 03:32 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Has Davidson confirmed anything yet? It's odd that only Jeff Goodman reported on this and nobody else.
I agree that it's odd he's the only one. If Brett McMurphy throws it out there, then I think it may have more legs.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Does anyone know WTF this guy is talking about?

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 12h
Of all the conference realignment we've seen, can't imagine one that runs more counter to nature of the institution than Davidson to A10.

From an academic point of view they are joining Fordham, GW, Richmond at the high level. Impressive company without question.
There are 1200 students at Davidson. Being in the southern conference, they take vans everywhere because they can get everywhere in the sc on a van.
I can't figure out how they're going to afford getting their volleyball and baseball teams to Rhody and Bonnie.

I'm thinking this is what Decourcy means and I agree with him on that level. This really is akin to Boise joining the big east.
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:59 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Davidson has the best "buzz" quotient of any potential add, so i like the addition from that standpoint.

My only question about Davidson is that I believe their basketball spending would rank near the bottom of the league (I think bottom 2 or 3). I wonder if they are committing to increasing their budget upon joining the league. That is the kind of thing that could determine post-McKillop whether they continue to succeed.
Davidson's a good program, but they dance every year because they play in a crappy conference, not because they are getting at larges.
I rag on a my Davidson friends every year about playing a three game basketball season.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:20 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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There are 1200 students at Davidson. Being in the southern conference, they take vans everywhere because they can get everywhere in the sc on a van.
I can't figure out how they're going to afford getting their volleyball and baseball teams to Rhody and Bonnie.

I'm thinking this is what Decourcy means and I agree with him on that level. This really is akin to Boise joining the big east.
Probably because they have a half a billion endowment that they can resource in addition to $300k per year checks that they can flip around and cover expenses.. Not to mention the digital rights agreement that will finally be finalized with Comcast/NBC this summer, as they (Comcast/NBC) are finalizing the mergers of their own merger (via synergies, classic M&A), which will provide more cash per school... Student athletes make up a significant portion of their student body (one of the highest ratios in the country).. So they will be spending the money on their student body

Additional travel expenses for the teams that do travel will be around $100k-$140k per year..

Heck if Davidson can't afford to travel then how does about half of the universities in the A-10 afford to travel with smaller endowments.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:27 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.
I think that you are looking at this from the opposite end. I do not know which football programs you are referring to (though I know there are some) and I have no idea what soccer program you are referring to, but what you need to look at is whether the conference in which they have a majority of their sports offers the sport they have elsewhere.

In the scenario you suggest for Davidson, it is not the A10 would care if they bring their non-revenue sports, it is the SoCon that would not allow them to have all their non-revenue sports with them and the one marquee nationally known sport to go to the A10. There would have to be something tangible in it for the SoCon and I am not sure what that would be, perhaps money.
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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$300,000 is not even remotely correct
I'm trying to find some information on what travel costs really are, it's often not reported separately in the articles, but I'm sure there's a database somewhere. But here's an older article from the nytimes on the issue:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/sp...anted=all&_r=0

UNCW faces a similar issue in CAA (southernmost member), and they reported a "game travel" budget of $1.2 million: http://www.starnewsonline.com/articl...CLES/130229623

I don't think 300,000 is that unreasonable across an entire athletic budget, if non-revenue teams are taking flights instead of close bus rides. The longer flights are not cheap anymore, and many of these teams have lots of players and support personnel to transport, along with extra baggage costs for equipment and travel to and from airports.

Do you have other sources of info?
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:47 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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I think that you are looking at this from the opposite end. I do not know which football programs you are referring to (though I know there are some) and I have no idea what soccer program you are referring to, but what you need to look at is whether the conference in which they have a majority of their sports offers the sport they have elsewhere.

In the scenario you suggest for Davidson, it is not the A10 would care if they bring their non-revenue sports, it is the SoCon that would not allow them to have all their non-revenue sports with them and the one marquee nationally known sport to go to the A10. There would have to be something tangible in it for the SoCon and I am not sure what that would be, perhaps money.
That's what I meant by "find a place to park the other sports". It sounded like from your previous post that you were suggesting the A10 wouldn't let Davidson bring only basketball, but I think I misread your post.

So that's the issue, how will they afford the increased costs for all these other sports? Tapping the endowment significantly isn't a long term solution that they'll be happy about, and smaller student populations make student fees less of an option. If the A10 gets a good t.v. deal despite the defections, then that would help tremendously.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:55 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

If Davidson thinks they can make the investments, why should anyone else care? We've had a school from Charlotte for the last decade.

Are their non-revenue sports awful? There are some pretty awful non revenue programs in the A10 right now. The St Bona Women's lax team that played down here yesterday is a good example.

From a basketball standpoint, adding Davidson is a no brainer. From an institutional perspective, it is also a no brainer.

Get it done.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:58 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I am skeptical of the Davidson rumor. Maybe they are being considered, but getting in before Siena? I have a hard time believing that. Based on what I know so far, Davidson does not seem like a great fit. We'll see. I am not going to react much without harder evidence.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:25 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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If Davidson thinks they can make the investments, why should anyone else care? We've had a school from Charlotte for the last decade.

Are their non-revenue sports awful? There are some pretty awful non revenue programs in the A10 right now. The St Bona Women's lax team that played down here yesterday is a good example.

From a basketball standpoint, adding Davidson is a no brainer. From an institutional perspective, it is also a no brainer.

Get it done.
I think it would be in the best interest of the A10 to make sure Davidson truly can make the investments. If they overextend themselves and then have to withdraw, it would not be ideal for the A10. That is why I think others should care.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:26 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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That's what I meant by "find a place to park the other sports". It sounded like from your previous post that you were suggesting the A10 wouldn't let Davidson bring only basketball, but I think I misread your post.

So that's the issue, how will they afford the increased costs for all these other sports? Tapping the endowment significantly isn't a long term solution that they'll be happy about, and smaller student populations make student fees less of an option. If the A10 gets a good t.v. deal despite the defections, then that would help tremendously.
Yeah, that is not what I was saying. You orginally asked in parentheses if they could possibly come over in just basketball and I said it would be very doubtful b/c nobody would likely be willing to accomodate all their other sports while not having their marquee sport.

BTW, which is the soccer program that is in a different conference than their predominant conference?
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:05 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I'm pretty sure that it is not possible to bring "only" basketball under NCAA rules. Football is the only sport in which a school can play in a league different from its other sports, with one exception. That exception is, as in the case of UMass lacrosse, when the league a school is in for other sports does not sponsor that particular sport.
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