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Old 04-16-2013, 10:48 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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I know the Northern members don't like this...
Don't look at me. I love it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:55 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Don't look at me. I love it.
Ok, so I should say "Northern fans who have not already spoken"?

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Old 04-16-2013, 10:56 AM   #123 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Trying to track down the conference sponsorship by school off ncaa.org, but I can't seem to hit on it yet. But, you can choose sport/division at this URL and then sort by conference to see by sport what teams are playing where.
Here is an ncaa.com web page showing conference affiliation for Providence. I've seen a better page on ncaa.org in the past, but can't seem to find it now.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:15 AM   #124 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Here is an ncaa.com web page showing conference affiliation for Providence. I've seen a better page on ncaa.org in the past, but can't seem to find it now.
Good stuff. I am going to guess that the volleyball move was to the Big East's benefit and if they had needed them, they would not have let them join the AE. That's really the crux of my argument, that the "main" conference won't let a school leave in only one sport if they feel they need that program within their conference.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:31 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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I'm pretty sure that it is not possible to bring "only" basketball under NCAA rules. Football is the only sport in which a school can play in a league different from its other sports, with one exception. That exception is, as in the case of UMass lacrosse, when the league a school is in for other sports does not sponsor that particular sport.
I'm 99% certain there's no overarching NCAA rule regarding this, though many individual conferences no doubt have internal rules and agreements among members.

One example: Loyola (MD) used to be a MAAC member, but played men's lacrosse in the ECAC and women's lacrosse in the Big East even though the MAAC sponsors both sports. This arrangement happened because Loyola takes its lacrosse very seriously, while the rest of the MAAC does not. (My understanding is this division of affiliations will end when Loyola joins the Patriot League.)

Here is an actual, little-known NCAA rule: All Division I members are REQUIRED to play men's and women's basketball. Doing it anyway seems like a no-brainer, but these are the only two sports that are actually mandatory under NCAA rules. And given that there isn't much incentive not to fund basketball, conferences generally form around the sport and have little reason to admit members for all sports except basketball. I think the only way we'll ever see a basketball-only arrangement is if there's a conference in danger of dying for lack of football members, such that it's willing to let an institution park its olympic sports there without basketball so long as it brings football. Like if Wichita State had football, the WAC might have been desperate enough to invite them for all sports while letting them play basketball in the A10. None of the other sports matter enough to go this route, unless hockey starts being played in all-sports conferences besides the Big Ten.

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Old 04-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Here is an ncaa.com web page showing conference affiliation for Providence. I've seen a better page on ncaa.org in the past, but can't seem to find it now.
Off-topic, but why doesn't the NCAA site recognize the existence of the Hockey East conference? I checked several other HE members, and like Providence they're all listed as ECAC members in hockey.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:42 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

The NCAA is strange. I follow collegiate bowling, and it's under the auspices of USBC, not the NCAA.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:43 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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One example: Loyola (MD) used to be a MAAC member, but played men's lacrosse in the ECAC even though the MAAC sponsored men's lacrosse. This arrangement happened because Loyola takes its men's lacrosse very seriously, while the rest of the MAAC does not. (This division of affiliations will end when Loyola joins the Patriot League.)
I think the other thing that came into play with Loyola was taht the ECAC preceded the MAAC, so the MAAC was not going to play hardball with Loyola on that one.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:09 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Here is an ncaa.com web page showing conference affiliation for Providence. I've seen a better page on ncaa.org in the past, but can't seem to find it now.
ON-topic, I saw on that site that Davidson plays field hockey in the Northern Pacific Field Hockey Conference with opponents such as Cal, Stanford, UC Davis and Pacific. So at first I thought, "well, there at least Davidson would have some big travel savings in the A10."

Not so. The NPFHC has 9 total members divided into East and West divisions. The East Division consists of Davidson, Liberty, Longwood, Radford and Appalachian State, and here's the catch: Davidson plays every member of the East Division twice, and NEVER plays anyone in the West Division. Not unless they bump into each other in the conference tournament. In the West Division, NPFHC Champion Stanford played every member of its division twice and never played an East Division team, except the West Division is smaller so Stanford only played 6 conference games while Davidson played 8.

Now, if this sort of arrangement is allowed under NCAA rules, why the hell isn't the Atlantic 10 getting more creative and bringing in a bunch of western teams like Gonzaga to set up a West Division if we never actually have to play the western teams in non-revenue sports before the conference tournament?
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:31 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Now, if this sort of arrangement is allowed under NCAA rules, why the hell isn't the Atlantic 10 getting more creative and bringing in a bunch of western teams like Gonzaga to set up a West Division if we never actually have to play the western teams in non-revenue sports before the conference tournament?
It might be possible, but there are some issues to work around.

For multisport conferences, the NCAA requires that men's and women's basketball play full schedules of at least 14 games (or a double round robin if membership is smaller). In addition, two other men's sports and two other women's sports must also play conference schedules of at least five contests.

Now, a conference can split up into subdivisions, provided that the subdivisions have at least four members each, and conference play can be conducted within those subdivisions in a round robin form if there are 4 and single or double round robin if there are 5 or more. (Does not apply to football or basketball, which have their own scheduling requirements.)
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:53 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Scheduling in men's basketball is fine. The revenue and exposure justifies the travel expense. Also, having members up to 3 time zones away could open up some late night TV time slot possibilities.

Women's basketball... well, that's just a tax you pay to Title IX to gain access to men's basketball. Oh well.

Cross Country, Golf, Swimming, Track and Rowing are all sports with only one conference event per year. Two in track if you do indoor track. Geography doesn't make a big difference there.

What we're really talking about is Men's and Women's Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Field Hockey, Women's Lacrosse, Women's Volleyball, and Men's and Women's Tennis. Those are the A10-sponsored sports that make a large geographic footprint expensive. If we set up a 4 to 6 member West division in just those sports, along with perhaps North and South divisions, and never played A10 members outside our division until the postseason, would anyone care? I think we already do something to that effect in Tennis. Those teams definitely don't play round-robin.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:53 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Is it really that much more travel expenses?

Last season their men's soccer team went to Ohio State and Wright State.
In the A-10, they go to Dayton & SLU in conference and play former conference division rivals in OOC.
Instead of road games at Chattanooga and Birmingham in Conference, it's Amherst and the Bronx in conference.

It's probably going to add ONE TRIP per sport tops. Which will be paid for by actually getting TV money and the A-10's NCAA revenue sharing program.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I guess being an outlier has made me kind of dismissive of the travel argument. If a school has a big issue with travel that precludes entry into the league, do you want them?
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:11 AM   #134 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Old 04-30-2013, 01:12 PM   #135 (permalink)
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Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

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Seriously, what's going on? We haven't heard so much as a peep about it. No further action but no denial either.
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