NCAA Credit Payouts - Page 6 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums
BasketballForum.com is the premier basketball Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
User Tag List

Like Tree36Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2018, 03:12 PM   #76 (permalink)
All-Star
 
paulxu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 5,439
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

At first glance there seem to be a lot of tie breaker possibilities with all that.
Also, teams 11 and 12 aren't even invited to the conference tournament.
__________________
...he went up late, and I was already up there.
paulxu is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-05-2018, 02:24 PM   #77 (permalink)
Rookie
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

So the Sun Belt's plan to get more bids is to play more games against Sun Belt teams??? I'm all for the concept of a flexible schedule to try to boost your record, but do they really think that another win or against Georgia Southern suddenly gets Louisiana in the At Large conversation? If anything they should cut the league games down to get more opportunities for quality non-conference games. Thats the only way one of their league members will get on the radar.
Bonas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2018, 03:55 PM   #78 (permalink)
Star
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonas123 View Post
So the Sun Belt's plan to get more bids is to play more games against Sun Belt teams??? I'm all for the concept of a flexible schedule to try to boost your record, but do they really think that another win or against Georgia Southern suddenly gets Louisiana in the At Large conversation? If anything they should cut the league games down to get more opportunities for quality non-conference games. Thats the only way one of their league members will get on the radar.
Right... the C-USA plan is better because their top three teams are going to get more Q1/Q2 wins over C-USA 4th and 5th teams. The third place team is probably not getting an at-large.

The Sun Belt plan is going to give 1st a better a resume, 2nd more quality losses and a win that isn't that impressive (over 3) and the third place team is basically toast.

Which is no different than before.
jpschmack is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 06-06-2018, 05:37 AM   #79 (permalink)
Rookie
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
Right... the C-USA plan is better because their top three teams are going to get more Q1/Q2 wins over C-USA 4th and 5th teams. The third place team is probably not getting an at-large.

The Sun Belt plan is going to give 1st a better a resume, 2nd more quality losses and a win that isn't that impressive (over 3) and the third place team is basically toast.

Which is no different than before.
I honestly feel that these one bid conferences would be much better served by sending their regular season conference champ to the tournament. You're only getting 1 bid anyway, so why not send your best team in the hopes that they win a game or two and earn some more money for the league? Plus, if that team makes a run, now you have a program with some cache that perhaps you can build upon. Loyola Chicago could be a preseason top 25 next year because of the run they had, which now raises the profile of the entire conference. I think in the long run this benefits conferences more than the money they make off a conference tourney and having the championship game on ESPN.
Bonas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 06:30 AM   #80 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Bona03's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 720 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonas123 View Post
I honestly feel that these one bid conferences would be much better served by sending their regular season conference champ to the tournament. You're only getting 1 bid anyway, so why not send your best team in the hopes that they win a game or two and earn some more money for the league? Plus, if that team makes a run, now you have a program with some cache that perhaps you can build upon. Loyola Chicago could be a preseason top 25 next year because of the run they had, which now raises the profile of the entire conference. I think in the long run this benefits conferences more than the money they make off a conference tourney and having the championship game on ESPN.

I agree with this but it will never happen. The leagues are definitely best served to send their best team but when you look at CUSA last year, they had 3-4 teams that were all within a couple games and any could have done what Marshall did. Loyola was definitely an outlier as they were legit good and I am glad they made it and made the most of their opportunity.



Going back to my thought, a good friend of mine used to work for the Patriot league and we recently discussed this very thing. I asked why hold a conference tournament and risk your best team not going? I also asked if they make any money off it and he said not much. He did say that the reason they have it is because of tv. Getting your title game on ESPN or CBS is worth it as they do make money off of that. So we will not see the lower conferences ditch their tournaments anytime soon.
__________________
2016-2017 A10 Contest Champion
Bona03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 06:44 AM   #81 (permalink)
Star
 
BrownIndians85's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,822
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

The tournament would be better and more upset-laiden if the Otto conferences sent their regular season champion.

But.. by having every conference have a conference tournament and sending their conference tournament champion, every school truly has a chance to dance in the postseason. That's why I'm generally against expansion of the NCAAT field size. Each school already has a chance to get in the tournament by winning!

What I would be in favor of is the Otto conferences giving byes to their top team all the way to the final. Some already place the top 2 into the semis and make everyone else play to get there. I don't think you should take away the fact that March Madness is all about everyone having a chance, however slim. But it would be nice if it much more likely that the conference regular season champ got the bid.
__________________
http://www.gobonnies.com
BrownIndians85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 06:50 AM   #82 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Bona03's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 720 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownIndians85 View Post
The tournament would be better and more upset-laiden if the Otto conferences sent their regular season champion.

But.. by having every conference have a conference tournament and sending their conference tournament champion, every school truly has a chance to dance in the postseason. That's why I'm generally against expansion of the NCAAT field size. Each school already has a chance to get in the tournament by winning!

What I would be in favor of is the Otto conferences giving byes to their top team all the way to the final. Some already place the top 2 into the semis and make everyone else play to get there. I don't think you should take away the fact that March Madness is all about everyone having a chance, however slim. But it would be nice if it much more likely that the conference regular season champ got the bid.

Giving byes to the semis has not been working. The Horizon was doing it and their best teams were getting beat because they had to sit around and wait for teams to catch up and then they had momentum. The MAAC tournament this past year was a disaster too. What the otto bids need to do is stop having them at neutral sites. Play all early rounds at campus sites and then let the top team host the semis and final or something like that. The A-Sun does a nice job of getting their 1 or 2 seed into the NCAAT every year. (almost)
__________________
2016-2017 A10 Contest Champion
Bona03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 07:09 AM   #83 (permalink)
res
Star
 
res's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,361
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1025 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

I prefer selecting the regular season champion and since the vast majority of conference tournaments don't draw flies anyway, I'm not sure of the appeal of the conference tournament in the first place. But, if you're going to have one, I prefer the Patriot League's practice of playing all games on-campus at the site of the higher seed. This doesn't guarantee your top seed getting in, but it gives them by far the best chance.

(Upsets still happen, of course, most notably the improbable run by #9 seed Holy Cross in 2016. The Cross, who went 5-13 in the conference regular season, won four straight road games including ones over the #1 , #2 and #4 seeds. They then went on to win their PIG game before being destroyed in the 1-16 game.)

EDIT: Sorry, '03, I started my response before I saw yours.
res is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 07:40 AM   #84 (permalink)
Piker
 
AlienAiden's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: orbital socket
Posts: 8,333
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3582 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by res View Post
I prefer selecting the regular season champion and since the vast majority of conference tournaments don't draw flies anyway, I'm not sure of the appeal of the conference tournament in the first place. But, if you're going to have one, I prefer the Patriot League's practice of playing all games on-campus at the site of the higher seed. This doesn't guarantee your top seed getting in, but it gives them by far the best chance.

(Upsets still happen, of course, most notably the improbable run by #9 seed Holy Cross in 2016. The Cross, who went 5-13 in the conference regular season, won four straight road games including ones over the #1 , #2 and #4 seeds. They then went on to win their PIG game before being destroyed in the 1-16 game.)

EDIT: Sorry, '03, I started my response before I saw yours.
But then I do not get to take a mini vacation to Brooklyn, Pittsburgh or DC. I am sad that I missed out on the Atlantic City days but my bank account is not sorry.
__________________
"I can shoot with my left hand, I can shoot with my right hand, I'm amphibious." ~Charles Shackleford
AlienAiden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 07:58 AM   #85 (permalink)
Star
 
BrownIndians85's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,822
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1290 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bona03 View Post
Giving byes to the semis has not been working.
Which is exactly why I'd be in favor of the top team getting a bye to the final. I agree with your momentum argument though it's tough to feel sorry for a team that's rested when the other team is coming off 2 or 3 straight nights of play.

I also like the home court suggestion. A central location is for all the ancillary bullshit that the conference wants, though. It's also easier for travel.

On the flip side, you could just say, "hey the regular season matters, morons." and give the bid to the regular season champ. What would ESPN2 do with the 11:00 AM time slot on a Tuesday in late February if the MEAC isn't having a semifinal though?
__________________
http://www.gobonnies.com
BrownIndians85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 08:56 AM   #86 (permalink)
Veteran
 
Bona03's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,605
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 720 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownIndians85 View Post
Which is exactly why I'd be in favor of the top team getting a bye to the final. I agree with your momentum argument though it's tough to feel sorry for a team that's rested when the other team is coming off 2 or 3 straight nights of play.

I also like the home court suggestion. A central location is for all the ancillary bullshit that the conference wants, though. It's also easier for travel.

On the flip side, you could just say, "hey the regular season matters, morons." and give the bid to the regular season champ. What would ESPN2 do with the 11:00 AM time slot on a Tuesday in late February if the MEAC isn't having a semifinal though?

The bigger question is what would these smaller conferences do without that TV money they get every March? They know they arent getting more than 1 unit from the NCAA so they need that money. ESPN is fine, they would just show what they always show in those slots if championship week disappeared. Big Monday gets extended 2 weeks.
__________________
2016-2017 A10 Contest Champion
Bona03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 12:37 PM   #87 (permalink)
All-Star
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 6,470
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1462 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bona03 View Post
The bigger question is what would these smaller conferences do without that TV money they get every March? They know they arent getting more than 1 unit from the NCAA so they need that money. ESPN is fine, they would just show what they always show in those slots if championship week disappeared. Big Monday gets extended 2 weeks.
The TV money may be part of the question, but how much do they really get? The individual schools in the one bid leagues would seem to make their money being bought during the OOC schedule.
__________________
Bona84
Bona84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2018, 04:34 PM   #88 (permalink)
Star
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

I think we're confusing the Sun Belt and C-USA with the terrible one-bid conferences.

That is what buying the BCS myth is about.

Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Marshall CAN FREAKING BALL.

The perception is because of sheer math. The conference schedule expanded and conferences grew. You’re playing 19 of 30 games against conference opponents. It’s impossible for your conference game SOS to keep up with BCS teams, who have all good programs.

In 2018, Eleven conferences had an OOC win percentage of .500 or better.
In 1994, it was 17 conferences, because the current BCS programs were spread out among 15 difference conferences.

The BCS conferences have always been good. There's just too few good programs outside of the BCS now in each conference for the math to keep up.

C-USA looks like a one-bid league, despite having four good teams. Four good teams and 10 mediocre/bad teams can't keep up with the math of 14 good teams.
Bill Russell likes this.
jpschmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2018, 07:28 AM   #89 (permalink)
Rookie
 

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
I think we're confusing the Sun Belt and C-USA with the terrible one-bid conferences.

That is what buying the BCS myth is about.

Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Old Dominion and Marshall CAN FREAKING BALL.

The perception is because of sheer math. The conference schedule expanded and conferences grew. Youíre playing 19 of 30 games against conference opponents. Itís impossible for your conference game SOS to keep up with BCS teams, who have all good programs.

In 2018, Eleven conferences had an OOC win percentage of .500 or better.
In 1994, it was 17 conferences, because the current BCS programs were spread out among 15 difference conferences.

The BCS conferences have always been good. There's just too few good programs outside of the BCS now in each conference for the math to keep up.

C-USA looks like a one-bid league, despite having four good teams. Four good teams and 10 mediocre/bad teams can't keep up with the math of 14 good teams.
While I dont disagree that the BCS conferences have a big advantage when it comes to the RPI game, the problem that the CUSA and MVC have (and WCC except for Gonzaga) is what they do in the non conference. In my opinion, this is why the A10 has had success as a multi-bid conference. CUSA, as a conference had just 2 Top 50 Non-Con wins. MVC also had just 2 Top 50 Non-Conference wins. The A-10, in contrast had 7, and not coincidentally, the 2 at large teams earned 5 of those 7.

I think CUSA's idea is a nice attempt to try and earn more bids. I'm all for being creative and certainly the status quo wasn't getting the job done. But if their league - and more specifically the top 4 teams in the league - don't distinguish themselves in the non-conference portion of the year - I think it will be all for naught.
Bonas123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2018, 02:56 PM   #90 (permalink)
Star
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,025
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Re: NCAA Credit Payouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonas123 View Post
While I dont disagree that the BCS conferences have a big advantage when it comes to the RPI game, the problem that the CUSA and MVC have (and WCC except for Gonzaga) is what they do in the non conference. In my opinion, this is why the A10 has had success as a multi-bid conference. CUSA, as a conference had just 2 Top 50 Non-Con wins. MVC also had just 2 Top 50 Non-Conference wins. The A-10, in contrast had 7, and not coincidentally, the 2 at large teams earned 5 of those 7.

I think CUSA's idea is a nice attempt to try and earn more bids. I'm all for being creative and certainly the status quo wasn't getting the job done. But if their league - and more specifically the top 4 teams in the league - don't distinguish themselves in the non-conference portion of the year - I think it will be all for naught.
Yeah, we have more quality programs capable of marquee OOC wins than other non-BCS conferences. Which is why we're a 3-bid league every year and no one else below us is.



But the thing with OOC games is... you have to play them on BCS terms. And that means you're not posting a good record in them. Their courts, their refs, their rules.


Which is why C-USA and Sun Belt is doing what they're doing: They're trying to create the maximum amount of Q1/Q2 games they can.

ANYTHING you can do to cut a sliver here or there off the BCS advantage, do it.



I honestly think the non-FBS football conferences need to get together, hold a summit, and put together a conference alignment plan that creates a new conference (or two designed) to be a 4 or 5 bid league, while leaving auto-bids for the members "left behind"


Like say you get six conferences without FBS football (A10, WCC, MVC, CAA, Horizon... half the WAC, and some other individual members), you make eight conferences.

Conference 1: Programs 1, 4, 5, 8, 9, three more not very good teams nearby those members
Conference 2: Programs 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, and three more not very good teams nearby those members.

Remaining teams geographically into six more groups of 8.

Everyone plays a 14-game conference schedule. Teams in the top two leagues cannot play teams from the others in OOC play.

Last edited by jpschmack; 06-08-2018 at 03:04 PM.
jpschmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:59 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 ó 2013 BasketballBoards.net.