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View Poll Results: How many games will the Bulls win in the 2015-16 regular season?
60+ 0 0%
55-59 3 17.65%
50-54 9 52.94%
45-49 3 17.65%
40-45 1 5.88%
Under 40 1 5.88%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-22-2015, 08:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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Originally Posted by Da Grinch View Post
honestly at head coach this has to be considered a drop off , a significant one actually .

one of the better defenses in the league figures to slip a bit and I don't think its going to be made up on offense .
I get this rationale, but I also think it's wrong. The Bulls were not a great defense last year. I believe they were top 5 in opponent FG%, but they were dead last or close to it in forcing turnovers, and also average (at best) at defensive rebounding. So any advantage they had in low FG% for opponents was offset with more possessions due to lack of turnovers forced and inability to secure defensive rebounds. Overall defensive impact they were pretty much average last year, and it was actually their offense that made them an above-average team.

Granted, it is possible they slide even more defensively, but I can't imagine us becoming a bottom 10 defense in this league with the personnel we have in the rotation combined with how bad defensively so many teams will be this upcoming year. On top of that we brought on Jim Boylen as lead assistant who is a reportedly a strong defensive coach so it's not like Hoiberg will just ignore it.

Basically I could see our defense getting a little worse but not signifantly worse since it was never that great anyways last year. And I think our offense is well positioned to grow from "good" (which it was last year) into an elite or borderline elite offense, since I see Hoiberg putting alot of our best scorers on the floor more often, along with his reputation with building efficient offensive systems and better chemistry & familiarity among all our returning players. More than anything I am expecting us to be a much faster paced team that pushes the ball, more fast break opps, and spreads the floor alot better which will lead to higher percentage scoring overall. This caters to the strengths of guys like Rose, Butler, Mirotic, and McDermott.

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Old 07-22-2015, 09:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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I highly doubt the FO wanted to roll with exactly this roster next season. My suspicion is the Bulls FO would like to move one of the bigs, but it basically became impossible due to health.

Noah - Knee issues are uncertain. Need to hold off until the deadline so he can prove his health before trading.

Taj Gibson - Ankle issues are uncertain. Also need to hold off until trade deadline.

Pau - You can't trade him due to the enormous PR hit the Bulls' FO would take after dumping a ring-chasing vet a year after he signed here for significantly less money than his market value, particularly when he is coming off a resurgent season.

Mirotic - One figures the FO does not want to trade him.

If Noah or Gibson can prove their health, then I think it makes a ton of sense to move one of them for an upgrade on the perimeter. The only way I see the Bulls not being interested in this is if Hoiberg has somehow solved the Noah + Pau incompatibility issues (and I'm not so sure they are solve-able) and the team is firing on all cylinders.

For the moment, until any in-season trades are consummated, I think the perimeter player "additions" are just going to be minutes for McDermott, and to a lesser degree, perhaps Snell.

I have no idea how you can assert Hoiberg is a "significant" dropoff from Thibs. How can anyone know this? Would you have said the same thing about Kerr when he replaced Jackson? By no means am I arguing that I know Hoiberg will be an improvement, though I do think it is possible the happier locker room may translate to some additional wins. Hoiberg is basically an unknown. He might be better or he might be worse.
any time you go from a good known commodity to an unknown its generally considered a significant drop-off and that is not just coaches that counts for players too.

and bottom line thibs is a very good coach and just because the bulls FO doesn't want to be his friend anymore doesn't change that.

for every kerr situation there are 5 tim floyds and truth be told no matter who the coach of the warrors was going to be everyone saw that team as being on the way up , I strongly doubt that is the general consensus of the bulls roster no matter who their coach was/is , its also worth noting that the warriors roster is a perfect fit for his coaching philosophy ...nobody thinks that for these Chicago bulls for hoiberg.

the bulls had this same issue last season regarding roster imbalance , they didn't solve it and now the player(s) they have to move are just a year older

McDermott is as much of an unknown as he was last season after shooting 40% from the field and 30% from 3 and .667 from the line ...averaging 3 points a game

he hasn't proven anything , I am choosing to believe a new system more tailored to his game and a year of learning the nba game has helped him.

locker room unhappiness doesn't make noah miss lay ups . he isn't missing shots because he doesn't like his coach.

you don't have to hold off on anything and while they are waiting they picked up portis who is just 20 and needs to play to see if there is anything there making the frontcourt even more crowded .

other GM's see this and holding on to them til they are about to be 31(noah in feb., taj in june ) at the next trade deadline is hardly a better strategy than trading them last summer when they were both 29 if you are trying to get value .

you already have noah on a minutes restriction , what kind of message does that send?

if you are going to trade them , then trade them, if the team were real title contenders I could see keeping them but they aren't , this team needs to rebuild and reload.

but I agree they are going to keep them, I just disagree with it , players get traded all the time , ty Lawson just got traded for scrubs and paper clips and few players are as damaged as he is right now...the best time to trade them is when teams still have holes in the rosters ...and for the most part that time has past this summer

Portland lost Aldridge , dallas lost chandler , Detroit lost Monroe, Indiana lost hibbert and west, the raptors lost amir Johnson

new York and the lakers were left with cap space looking for bigs and came up empty

there were opportunities to balance the roster the bulls as usual didn't take advantage .
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Old 07-22-2015, 10:18 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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Originally Posted by Da Grinch View Post
any time you go from a good known commodity to an unknown its generally considered a significant drop-off and that is not just coaches that counts for players too.

and bottom line thibs is a very good coach and just because the bulls FO doesn't want to be his friend anymore doesn't change that.

for every kerr situation there are 5 tim floyds and truth be told no matter who the coach of the warrors was going to be everyone saw that team as being on the way up , I strongly doubt that is the general consensus of the bulls roster no matter who their coach was/is , its also worth noting that the warriors roster is a perfect fit for his coaching philosophy ...nobody thinks that for these Chicago bulls for hoiberg.

the bulls had this same issue last season regarding roster imbalance , they didn't solve it and now the player(s) they have to move are just a year older

McDermott is as much of an unknown as he was last season after shooting 40% from the field and 30% from 3 and .667 from the line ...averaging 3 points a game

he hasn't proven anything , I am choosing to believe a new system more tailored to his game and a year of learning the nba game has helped him.

locker room unhappiness doesn't make noah miss lay ups . he isn't missing shots because he doesn't like his coach.

you don't have to hold off on anything and while they are waiting they picked up portis who is just 20 and needs to play to see if there is anything there making the frontcourt even more crowded .

other GM's see this and holding on to them til they are about to be 31(noah in feb., taj in june ) at the next trade deadline is hardly a better strategy than trading them last summer when they were both 29 if you are trying to get value .

you already have noah on a minutes restriction , what kind of message does that send?

if you are going to trade them , then trade them, if the team were real title contenders I could see keeping them but they aren't , this team needs to rebuild and reload.

but I agree they are going to keep them, I just disagree with it , players get traded all the time , ty Lawson just got traded for scrubs and paper clips and few players are as damaged as he is right now...the best time to trade them is when teams still have holes in the rosters ...and for the most part that time has past this summer

Portland lost Aldridge , dallas lost chandler , Detroit lost Monroe, Indiana lost hibbert and west, the raptors lost amir Johnson

new York and the lakers were left with cap space looking for bigs and came up empty

there were opportunities to balance the roster the bulls as usual didn't take advantage .

I think this is pretty far off-base. You really think the time to trade Noah and Taj would be now rather than mid-season? That's nutty. Teams will still have holes at mid-season. Those teams you just listed haven't solved their problems and don't figure to do so prior to the season commencing, given that the FA pool has largely dried up. You don't think you'd get more return for those players after half a season of healthy play?
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Old 07-23-2015, 04:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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I think this is pretty far off-base. You really think the time to trade Noah and Taj would be now rather than mid-season? That's nutty. Teams will still have holes at mid-season. Those teams you just listed haven't solved their problems and don't figure to do so prior to the season commencing, given that the FA pool has largely dried up. You don't think you'd get more return for those players after half a season of healthy play?
but they had the same roster unbalance last season

I think they had the same plan last season and it didn't work out .

whats nutty is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:26 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

I voted 45-49. Two reasons:

- The conference is stronger. Milwaukee's going to be all kinds of tough and Indy will have George back.

- I expect Hoiberg and Forman to be in sync when it comes to strategic rest for players in a way Thibodeau and Forman never were. This new way of thinking/coaching will trade a couple regular season wins for improved readiness/health come playoff time.
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Old 07-25-2015, 11:37 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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but they had the same roster unbalance last season

I think they had the same plan last season and it didn't work out .

whats nutty is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I think I've been pretty clear. They had the roster imbalance last season, thought it would work, and it didn't. I would expect they want to move one of Noah or Taj because they recognize the imbalance, but can't move them yet given their injury situations. That may change if either can prove themselves healthy prior to the trade deadline. You can't really moan about not moving a big this offseason when there would not reasonably have been a move to make.
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Old 07-25-2015, 05:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

I think the Bulls just need to make 1 trade and we have a very balanced roster.

That trade is quite simply Taj Gibson for decent backup PG...preferably one that is a very good defender, can facilitate an offense well, and help stretch the floor with some shooting ability. In other words we need Kirk Hinrich the way he existed about 5 years ago. Doesn't even need to be a high volume scorer, we have Derrick and Aaron Brooks who can do that from the PG position.

There is no reason Taj can't get us that type of player in return, in theory, as he's certainly on par or even slightly more valuable than that type of player I describe. But as JNR says we can't trade an injured Taj, nobody will take that until he proves himself healthy again.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:35 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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I think the Bulls just need to make 1 trade and we have a very balanced roster.

That trade is quite simply Taj Gibson for decent backup PG...preferably one that is a very good defender, can facilitate an offense well, and help stretch the floor with some shooting ability. In other words we need Kirk Hinrich the way he existed about 5 years ago. Doesn't even need to be a high volume scorer, we have Derrick and Aaron Brooks who can do that from the PG position.
Yodurk, it sounds like you've got a clear picture of the concept of this backup PG, but do you have any names. Most of the guys that fit your description are starters.

I mean, would C.J. Watson be adequate compensation for Gibson? Beno Udrih? Devin Harris? Backup PGs seldom make what Gibson makes so would you be willing to take back a crap contract or two to make the deal work?
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Old 07-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yodurk, it sounds like you've got a clear picture of the concept of this backup PG, but do you have any names. Most of the guys that fit your description are starters.

I mean, would C.J. Watson be adequate compensation for Gibson? Beno Udrih? Devin Harris? Backup PGs seldom make what Gibson makes so would you be willing to take back a crap contract or two to make the deal work?
I did a little research and there aren't as many as I thought. Unfortunately we missed out on a few this summer due to cost or lack of interest. My favorite was Cory Joseph. Jeremy Lin also would've fit great IMO and he signed a cheap deal, but he clearly wanted a small market team and signed with Charlotte.

My favorite trade target is Darren Collison. I don't see the Kings trading him though. It would take more than just Taj Gibson.

Ramon Sessions would be pretty good. His drawback is he isn't a great shooter but he can defend, run an offense, and penetrate.

Devin Harris could fit too if he isn't too washed up.

CJ Watson ironically fits as well, but that bridge seems burned and I never really liked his ability to run an offense. He isn't much better than Aaron Brooks in that area.

Deron Williams would be nice and he signed a reasonable $5M per year deal with Dallas. Deron can still facilitate and shoot, and passable defensively. He really lost his elite penetration ability though due to age and/or conditioning.

Basically it will be hard to find a proven PG with this skill set. Either Hinrich discovers the fountain of youth, we overpay in a trade, or the Bulls need to discover an unproven talent that pans out.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

One guy I honestly forgot about is E'Twaun Moore. If the season started today you've got to wonder if Moore would be considered for the primary backup PG. He actually fits the mold of what I think the Bulls need in a backup PG:

- Great size/length (won't get picked on like Aaron Brooks does)
- Good defender
- Decent shooter (nothing spectacular but he's a solid enough 35% for his career)
- Low turnover rate, seems to make good decisions and take care of the ball

He is a low volume scorer but as I stated above, I think that's OK provided he can keep the defense honest. He always seemed to play well and given us something when given the opportunity last year.

I like that he's only now entering his prime at age 26. He has 4 years of NBA experience now but still physically at top of his game.

Really my only concern is Moore's ability to lead an NBA offense and create looks for teammates. He isn't a natural PG who can create something out of nothing; alot more like CJ Watson in that sense. Then again if he did, he would probably be a far more sought after player. And we do have Aaron Brooks who we can use situationally and brings a much different style to the table.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls' Record Next Year

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I think I've been pretty clear. They had the roster imbalance last season, thought it would work, and it didn't. I would expect they want to move one of Noah or Taj because they recognize the imbalance, but can't move them yet given their injury situations. That may change if either can prove themselves healthy prior to the trade deadline. You can't really moan about not moving a big this offseason when there would not reasonably have been a move to make.
it didn't work , so why didn't they make a move at the trade deadline last season ?

it didn't work so why not do something at the draft?

free agency ?

your response is they had injury issues which is of course ridiculous .

you can easily backtrack through the 1st half of the season and find times when guys were healthy enough to be traded...but of course your team has to want to trade for that to happen.

the front office thought the problem was thibs. that's why they did nothing then and now.

they are leaving a hole at the wing spot opposite jimmy for at least 2 years waiting on McDermott to be ready which looks to be another year off at the earliest before he is starter caliber...if ever.
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