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Old 02-19-2016, 11:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: What if the bulls dont make the playoffs ?

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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
Do I think they say the want to win a title? Sure. Do I think the bulls are one of the few franchises in all of basketball that lose sleep over losing and not competing for titles? Nope.
You think only a few franchises in basketball care about winning titles? Weird.

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You basically say that their desire to win a title shouldn't be questioned.... Ok, but nothing they have done resembles what championship caliber teams do. Constant salary dump trades, constant "oh we don't have an injury free year" excuse, constantly bringing back flawed teams to repeat the pointless circle.
I don't say it shouldn't be questioned. I say that if you believe their primary motivation is profits, championships are very profitable, so criticizing them for money-grubbing doesn't necessarily support your argument that they don't want to win titles.

I like that you say championship caliber teams don't salary dump. Cleveland just executed a salary dump yesterday. Miami just executed a salary dump yesterday. Oklahoma City just executed a salary dump yesterday. The Houston Rockets just executed a salary dump yesterday.

So, teams with championship aspirations don't engage in salary dumps, right? Riiiiiight.

And I agree with you that constantly bringing back flawed rosters is bad. The Bulls have not "constantly" done that. This is the 2nd season of this incarnation of the Bulls. If Gar was actually telling the truth yesterday and not just blowing smoke because it would be GM malpractice to say anything different when he said the team wants Pau and Noah both back, then yeah, I'd agree that would be nuts. But I don't believe the team actually does want both of those guys back. If they did somehow bring both back next year, I'll be with you in the streets with pitchforks and torches.

I'm still pissed about the lack of meaningful activity yesterday, but your particular points are just way off the mark.

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The Lakers have won 5 titles since losing their greatest player (Magic), The Celtics won 2 since Bird retired, The Pistons won after the end of the badboys, The Spurs won with and without Robinson, the Cavalier's were able to get Lebron twice lol. Don't give me that lame ass excuse. Great franchises do whatever it takes to get back to greatness.
The Spurs have not won without Duncan, which is actually the meaningful point you should cite, so they can be thrown out as an example.

The Lakers drafted Kobe and acquired Shaq. They have performed better than the Bulls, obviously. They are now a dumpster fire, FWIW, but I'd take some dumpster fire years if I also got more championships.

The Pistons did sneak one. That was nice.

You should probably note the Cavaliers have won 0 NBA championships, so perhaps that's not your best example. But yes, they were lucky enough to draft the hometown superstar in a obvious #1 pick, lose his best years, and then convince him to come back for both PR, emotional, and competitive reasons. I'm sure the Bulls would have signed him if he were from Chicago. He's not. GarPax is clearly losing the OBGYN recruiting competition.

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Again, I never said the organization doesn't want to win. They just don't have a top to bottom urgency to win a title. They are in the business in lucking into situations and juicing those situations till there is nothing left.

They lucked into Jordan, they lucked into Rose, they lucked into Thibs and have never EVER been considered a visionary front office. Those are facts. So I'm sorry if my well supported views on this front office doesn't gel with your feelings on the front office.
Ha, your "well supported" views are pretty ridiculous as expressed above. They didn't luck into Jordan. They were bad, had a high draft pick, and drafted him. This is the most common means of superstar acquisition in the NBA. They were "lucky" to get the slot to draft Rose, but in hindsight, I'm not sure you should be describing that as good luck.

They didn't "luck" into Thibs at all. That's just asinine. The dude was in his 50s and no other NBA team wanted to give him a head coaching job! He was considered here one time, then they stupidly hired VDN instead, and guess what? Thibs was still available years later when VDN was fired!

Lucked into him. Sheesh. One of the more out-there things I've seen someone post, and it's been thirteen years on this site.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:06 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: What if the bulls dont make the playoffs ?

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Originally Posted by jnrjr79 View Post
I seem to remember a back-and-forth years ago with you where you indicated you weren't going to give up your tickets to the team, despite your severe distaste for how the franchise was being managed, because your kid enjoyed going to games with you. I'm not critical of that. I only mention it to point out that Bulls games are marketed as family and corporate entertainment products. If they were utterly miserable, attendance might drop off some, but ticket sales were remarkably durable in the gloom and doom post-MJ years. The Bulls and other NBA franchises do whatever they can to market the game "experience" as something more than just the basketball product on the floor.
Going to Bulls games is certainly an entertainment purchase, much like a movie or a concert. And it is entertaining, they do a good job with that. Its a lot more fun when its a competitive product on the floor. But, hardcore fans like the ones that frequent message boards are the minority.

Krause got fired when the seats stopped selling. Their business model is sound, I will never dispute that. If they miss the playoffs this season, I suspect it won't be a long time occurrence. They will get back to the first round soon enough, if they miss this year.

This team is perfectly content do well enough in the regular season and make the first round of the playoffs. Given the fanbase, market, etc, they could set their sights higher for sure, with better upper management.

Last edited by K4E; 02-19-2016 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 02-19-2016, 01:11 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnrjr79 View Post

You think only a few franchises in basketball care about winning titles? Weird.
They say they care, but there is no doubt that there are teams in the NBA that value titles more than other franchises. The bulls aren't one of them.

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I don't say it shouldn't be questioned. I say that if you believe their primary motivation is profits, championships are very profitable, so criticizing them for money-grubbing doesn't necessarily support your argument that they don't want to win titles.
Yet for the longest time they refused to pay the luxury tax. Guess what, it costs money to win titles. Nothing they have done tells me that they value titles over money. If titles meant more than money, they would have tanked the season, because a higher draft pick gets them closer to a title, not another couple of months of Pau.

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I like that you say championship caliber teams don't salary dump. Cleveland just executed a salary dump yesterday. Miami just executed a salary dump yesterday. Oklahoma City just executed a salary dump yesterday. The Houston Rockets just executed a salary dump yesterday.
So, teams with championship aspirations don't engage in salary dumps, right? Riiiiiight.
I said constant. The Bulls are the champions of the salary dump. Also, Cleveland added a shit ton last year.

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The Spurs have not won without Duncan, which is actually the meaningful point you should cite, so they can be thrown out as an example.
And they would not have won their last title without Leonard or do you think Tim Duncan has been the best player on the Spurs during the current run?

Quote:
The Lakers drafted Kobe and acquired Shaq. They have performed better than the Bulls, obviously. They are now a dumpster fire, FWIW, but I'd take some dumpster fire years if I also got more championships.
They actually acquired both. They traded Divacs to Charlotte to pick Kobe.


Quote:
Ha, your "well supported" views are pretty ridiculous as expressed above. They didn't luck into Jordan. They were bad, had a high draft pick, and drafted him. This is the most common means of superstar acquisition in the NBA. They were "lucky" to get the slot to draft Rose, but in hindsight, I'm not sure you should be describing that as good luck.

They didn't "luck" into Thibs at all. That's just asinine. The dude was in his 50s and no other NBA team wanted to give him a head coaching job! He was considered here one time, then they stupidly hired VDN instead, and guess what? Thibs was still available years later when VDN was fired!

Lucked into him. Sheesh. One of the more out-there things I've seen someone post, and it's been thirteen years on this site.
Lol yeah, cause Portland not taking Jordan #2 isn't luck at all gtfo.

The only reason Thibs was even available a second time was because he didn't want to just coach anywhere. Heck if it wasn't for the colossal failure that was VDN Thibs might not have ever coached for the Bulls.
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