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Old 02-09-2016, 10:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

The Bulls have been towards the bottom of the league in off eff all season. This isn't just a current problem. Hoiball.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Now, as a whole, the Bulls have a negative point differential on the year while flirting right around +1 or less for most of the season.

Last season under Thibs this team was +3.2.

Taj Gibson is starting to call out the team. For him, its frustrating to see the Thibs winning ways slowly slipping away while the usual Paxson malaise sets in again.

Sad to see. Rough season. What a mess.
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:23 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

On the bright side, when I created this thread, the Bulls were the 2nd worst offense in the NBA.

Now they are the 5th worst offense in the NBA.

Trending up!
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:43 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

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'Next man up, we have enough' has turned into 'wahhh injuries' and 'this is a bad roster.'

Wait, isn't "this is a bad roster" the main point of all your posts?
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:24 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...rts/160219960/

Cowley weighed in yesterday.

Now Mike North is throwing in his two cents.

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The Chicago Bulls felt Tom Thibodeau was to blame for not moving the team further in the playoffs. Why isn't new coach Fred Hoiberg to blame for their problems now?
The Rebel Inside!
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:10 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

The purpose is not to improve or help, is overachievement, deepen into playoffs or won too many games. GM does not allow coach to overachieve.

Nuggets fired coach of the year George Karl

Rockets fired Kevin McHale.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:17 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

Simple minds, simple thinking. (these media heads that is)

Hoiberg hasn't helped much, but I really don't think he's actively hurt them either.

For the 248th time, there are several other problems that need to be addressed. That's on Gar Forman.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:23 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Has a coaching change helped the Bulls?

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Simple minds, simple thinking. (these media heads that is)

Hoiberg hasn't helped much, but I really don't think he's actively hurt them either.
Its also often not very complex.

Hoiberg certainly isn't helping. Early on, he's a replacement level coach, at best.

The coaching change has not helped the Bulls in any way, shape or form.
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Old 02-11-2016, 04:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Things are just worse under Hoiball

From a team perspective, the team has a negative differential between OFF EFF and DEF EFF. Right now its at -1.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

Last year with basically the same roster under Thibs, the team was a +3.2.

http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/year/2015


Even more troubling is to see how much poorer some players are playing under Hoiball this season than under Thibs last season.


Most troubling


Derrick Rose
PER Last Year: 15.9
PER This Year: 12.4

Former MVP went from being a decent NBA player last season to a bad one this year.

Nikola Mirotic
PER Last Year: 17.9
PER This Year: 14.5

Promising rookie last season with a close to 18 PER. This year he's below average. What a dropoff.


Taj Gibson
PER Last Year: 16.1
PER This Year: 14.6

The always solid Taj under Thibs has been a below average NBA player under Hoiball.

Tony Snell
PER Last Year: 10.2
PER This Year: 6.8

This promising D and 3 guy has turned into a really bad NBA player under Hoiberg. Another younger asset moving in the wrong direction.


Aaron Brooks
PER Last Year: 14.4
PER This Year: 12.2

Our instant offense guy is now a bad NBA player under Hoiball. No DJ / Nate signing this year. No Thibs.

A bit worse

Joakim Noah
PER Last Year: 15.3
PER This Year: 14.2

Worse under Hoiberg. Also hurt under Hoiberg.




About the same

Jimmy Butler
PER Last Year: 21.3
PER This Year: 21.9

Playing great and an all-star level talent. Still leading the league in MPG though under Hoiberg / Swanson / GarPax and now he has hurt his knee.

Pau Gasol
PER Last Year: 22.7
PER This Year: 22.3

Not a stout defender by any stretch, but still delivering the goods at an all-star level at an advanced age.


E'Twaun Moore
PER Last Year: 10.3
PER This Year: 10.9

Decent bench guard. Doing about the same.


Big Winner

Doug McDermott

PER Last Year: 6.1
PER This Year: 9.0

Big uptick in production for Dougie. He's been freed from the shackles of Thibs. Problem is that 9.0 is absolutely awful, especially for a guy that is supposed to be an offense first guy. Flawed judgement by many.


Better, but who cares

Kirk Hinrich

PER Last Year: 6.8
PER This Year: 7.5

Hoiball agrees with him. Ha. He's going to turn into dust, wraps, gear and glasses at some point in a game this season.


Cameron Baristow

PER Last Year: 2.1
PER This Year: 3.5

Freed from Thibs.



Oy vey, what a mess.

So many key players doing worse under Hoiberg. Noone meaningful doing better.

And last season was supposed to be the year where Thibs "lost the team."

If last season was "lost the team" what do you call this?

Last edited by K4E; 02-11-2016 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 02-11-2016, 06:33 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Things are just worse under Hoiball

Anyone mind if I merge this with one of the other threads? They all seem to be on the same topic.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:15 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Things are just worse under Hoiball

Just merge this into one of the other threads.
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Old 03-27-2016, 05:32 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

I am going to defend Fred for now. He does not have the players that will buy into his style. Not yet anyway.
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Old 03-29-2016, 06:43 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

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I am going to defend Fred for now. He does not have the players that will buy into his style. Not yet anyway.
then maybe the front office should have drafted , traded and signed such players over the past year....but because they were trying to prove a point about thibs(which actually proved the exact opposite )

they threw away a year.
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:11 PM   #43 (permalink)
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And now they're talking about potentially trading Butler. I have never seen any team double down on a first year coach like this. The incompetence of this front office is laughable, and here they are still trying to sell the fanbase that Hoiberg is the next Steve Kerr lol.

To be fair, I said several months ago that this offense will never work with Butler on this team and frankly I think Hoiberg can't even coach in this league. So now we are looking at a situation where the front office is willing to shape this team in a particular fashion, with 0 evidence that it's even the right direction to go in.

Cutting your losses with Hoiberg is ten times smarter than trading away a legit NBA talent (even though he's incredibly overrated). I'm all for trading Butler for a guy like cousins, but he's not even the type of player that Hoiberg needs.

At this point, the Bulls would be much better off cleaning house at the front office level, trading away assets for younger players and ending the Hoiberg experiment.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:05 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

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And now they're talking about potentially trading Butler. I have never seen any team double down on a first year coach like this. The incompetence of this front office is laughable, and here they are still trying to sell the fanbase that Hoiberg is the next Steve Kerr lol.

To be fair, I said several months ago that this offense will never work with Butler on this team and frankly I think Hoiberg can't even coach in this league. So now we are looking at a situation where the front office is willing to shape this team in a particular fashion, with 0 evidence that it's even the right direction to go in.

Cutting your losses with Hoiberg is ten times smarter than trading away a legit NBA talent (even though he's incredibly overrated). I'm all for trading Butler for a guy like cousins, but he's not even the type of player that Hoiberg needs.

At this point, the Bulls would be much better off cleaning house at the front office level, trading away assets for younger players and ending the Hoiberg experiment.
I have seen reports that other teams are trying to get Butler, but not that the Bulls are trying to move him, due to Fred's system or anything else. Have you seen anything to the contrary?
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Old 04-02-2016, 07:18 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Hoiball is now the 2nd worst offense in the NBA

The Bulls' playoff chances just took a major nosedive in one huge possession. They slow down Jackson, get the Pistons into the half court - they probably get the stop. Detroit hadn't had ONE good shot in about four minutes in the half court. But they got lazy and.... better start winning and not stop.

GG Hoiball.
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