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Old 02-09-2016, 12:57 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Right, so Thibs wasn't the problem. That was always ridiculous.

Jen Swanson is still collecting paychecks. Thibs is gone (still collecting uncle jerry's money tho ). More injuries than ever!

Paxson is still collecting paychecks too. The team is in free-fall.

What a mess Paxson has created.
Thibodeau was A problem. Not the only problem. He was the first problem to be addressed.

I could care less about Jen Swanson. You won't insult me saying she has failed at keeping the team healthy.

Why do you go on about Paxson like this? Paxson isn't even the one managing the team these days. From what I've gathered he is more of a consultant on basketball decisions and may have some sort of veto power. Gar Forman is the one on thin ice, IMO.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Cowley = thebizkit of the Sun-Times. He doesn't give a crap about what others think and tells it like it is. Cowley is 100% right and accurate in his description of this franchise. So what if he uses words like "snake" or "dysfunctional" when talking about this team, because It's pretty spot on.

The fact that other writers are now no longer afraid to speak up, just gives more credibility to Cowley.
You have 1 thing right, Cowley isn't afraid to speak out. Whether he is credible on a given matter is a whole other thing. Something tells me he values website hits more than telling the honest story in a non-biased way. Which is what credible journalists are supposed to do.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thibodeau was A problem. Not the only problem. He was the first problem to be addressed.


Why do you go on about Paxson like this?
Why do you always have to include some sort of shot at Thibs whether this stuff comes up lol.

Thibs was only a problem to the egos of the front office. It's crystal clear now that there was no legit basketball reasons for his firing.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
Cowley = thebizkit of the Sun-Times. He doesn't give a crap about what others think and tells it like it is. Cowley is 100% right and accurate in his description of this franchise. So what if he uses words like "snake" or "dysfunctional" when talking about this team, because It's pretty spot on.

The fact that other writers are now no longer afraid to speak up, just gives more credibility to Cowley.
You have 1 thing right, Cowley isn't afraid to speak out. Whether he is credible on a given matter is a whole other thing. Something tells me he values website hits more than telling the honest story in a non-biased way. Which is what credible journalists are supposed to do.
What is he saying that is biased? It's not like he was the only person with league sources to shine light on the problems with the front office and Thibs. Heck, Adrian Woj was taking about this stuff 2 seasons ago. Is his credibility on the line?

Just because he's not a Bulls shill like the majority of people who cover Bulls, that makes him not credible?
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Why do you always have to include some sort of shot at Thibs whether this stuff comes up lol.

Thibs was only a problem to the egos of the front office. It's crystal clear now that there was no legit basketball reasons for his firing.
It wasn't meant to be a shot at Thibodeau, not this time at least.

K4E said: "Right, so Thibs wasn't the problem. That was always ridiculous."

I am refuting this myth that there is/was a singular definitive problem with the Bulls last year. K4E likes to say or imply that popular fan theory was "Thibodeau was THE problem" and that all our problems would be solved by getting rid of him.

Nobody ever said that, few likely thought that.

It gets old falling into this human tendency to attribute a poor team performance down to 1 single factor. Truth is there were several notable ones. I am merely pointing out that Thibodeau was 1 (of several) problems, and he just so happened to be the first to go.

It's the NBA, this happens all the time. 5 years as a head coach is a great run, and Thibodeau is a good coach.

I beg to differ there were basketball problems, but I've only stated those about 117 times on this board, so would rather not re-hash that yet again. You guys have your opinions, I'm not going to change them.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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What is he saying that is biased? It's not like he was the only person with league sources to shine light on the problems with the front office and Thibs. Heck, Adrian Woj was taking about this stuff 2 seasons ago. Is his credibility on the line?

Just because he's not a Bulls shill like the majority of people who cover Bulls, that makes him not credible?
Cowley slants every article he writes in some way. You could find his photo in the textbook definition of biased reporting.

Woj is the same way. Woj loses alot of credibility to me because of the way in which he gets his information. He basically sells biased/slanted stories in exchange for information. This isn't exactly a secret, it's pretty well known at this point. You don't become the most plugged in NBA writer in the world without slanting stories in favor of your information providers.

And before you bring it up, yes, guys like KC Johnson are likely the same way, but from the Bulls front office point of view.

This is why I hate media, BTW. This problem goes way beyond sports.
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Old 02-09-2016, 01:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Woj is the same way. Woj loses alot of credibility to me because of the way in which he gets his information. He basically sells biased/slanted stories in exchange for information. This isn't exactly a secret, it's pretty well known at this point. You don't become the most plugged in NBA writer in the world without slanting stories in favor of your information providers.

And before you bring it up, yes, guys like KC Johnson are likely the same way, but from the Bulls front office point of view.

This is why I hate media, BTW. This problem goes way beyond sports.
Fair enough. But, these guys are accused of posting slanted stuff mostly because when they give the front office a chance to give their side of the story, they either don't or they just leak it to their own lap dog beat writers like KC Johnson, who IMO lack way more credibility than the likes of Woj and Cowley.

If you want to call a guy like Vangundy biased, sure. Hes friends with Thibs after all. Cowley and Woj are just doing their jobs, it's not their fault that Garpax and co like to keep everything under their control.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:00 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Thibodeau was A problem. Not the only problem. He was the first problem to be addressed.
Not really, no. Thibs wasn't the problem. The front office was / is.

If he was a problem, one would think you would see improvement once the problem was addressed.


In fact, you've seen the opposite. The team is in free-fall. Identity-less. Rudderless. Leaderless. Lost.

Let's hope Hoiball can take hold and Paxson can right the ship.

The Bulls were a whisper away from knocking off the Cavs last season and very, very close to making the NBA Finals. Same roster this season. Now we're seeing the same roster without Thibs. Ick. Paxson, Forman and Jen Swanson (why so many injuries?) are still collecting paychecks.
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Old 02-09-2016, 11:02 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Nobody ever said that, few likely thought that.
He was the only guy to get demonized and smeared by the front office and then fired though.

And now we're left with Paxson and this smoldering mess that without Thibs pulling off his miracles is being exposed.
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

Jimmy Butler's absence over the next month is going to lower morale even further in Chicago. Get your hard hats on
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Old 02-10-2016, 06:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Jimmy Butler's absence over the next month is going to lower morale even further in Chicago. Get your hard hats on
Not for the players who don't even like the guy.
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:47 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Not really, no. Thibs wasn't the problem. The front office was / is.

If he was a problem, one would think you would see improvement once the problem was addressed.
There you go again. "THE problem." Nobody is saying that. He was one problem of several.

Things haven't improved because the other problems haven't been adequately addressed. Some of those other problems actually have gotten worse.

Also if Hoiberg does indeed flame out here in the end, that doesn't exempt Thibodeau from blame. It just means the coaching replacement was inadequate.

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In fact, you've seen the opposite. The team is in free-fall. Identity-less. Rudderless. Leaderless. Lost.
So in other words, exactly like last season!

Quote:
Let's hope Hoiball can take hold and Paxson can right the ship.

The Bulls were a whisper away from knocking off the Cavs last season and very, very close to making the NBA Finals. Same roster this season. Now we're seeing the same roster without Thibs. Ick. Paxson, Forman and Jen Swanson (why so many injuries?) are still collecting paychecks.
Did you miss the part where JNR did a rundown of which injuries were wear & tear injuries versus traumatic one-time impact injuries? Not saying Swanson is doing her job well or making a difference, how would I know, but how the heck do you attribute a guy getting a separated shoulder or hyperextended knee to the trainer? Or moreso the team management.

You didn't address my question about Paxson. Why do you put this on Paxson? If you go that far, why not Reinsdorf then? If you blame anyone the most, blame Gar Forman. Gar is running basketball operations. He should be first to go, and then you let Paxson hand pick his replacement, a guy like Matt Lloyd perhaps. Paxson shouldn't get fired for not doing Gar's job for him. That is why Gar was hired into his current position.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:34 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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So in other words, exactly like last season!
No, the Bulls were a 50 win team last season and were a Gasol ankle sprain / Lebron missed three away from knocking off a team that went to the Finals. The Exec VP fired the coach partially on the premise that this roster could get to the NBA Finals.

That doesn't appear to be the case this year. We'll see. As it stands right now, they are in danger of not making the playoffs, as improbable as it seems.


Quote:
Did you miss the part where JNR did a rundown of which injuries were wear & tear injuries versus traumatic one-time impact injuries? Not saying Swanson is doing her job well or making a difference, how would I know, but how the heck do you attribute a guy getting a separated shoulder or hyperextended knee to the trainer? Or moreso the team management.
How do you attribute injuries to the head coach? Plenty were doing that and criticizing Thibs for bristling against the Jen Swanson minutes restrictions, which he abided by.

Meanwhile, Jimmy Butler is allowed to lead the league in minutes this season again with a different coach and now he's out for a month.

If that type of thing was on Thibs last year, why isn't it on Hoiberg this year? Why isn't that the story being fed to Sam Smith and KC Johnson? Because the smear is over.


Quote:
You didn't address my question about Paxson. Why do you put this on Paxson? If you go that far, why not Reinsdorf then? If you blame anyone the most, blame Gar Forman. Gar is running basketball operations. He should be first to go, and then you let Paxson hand pick his replacement, a guy like Matt Lloyd perhaps. Paxson shouldn't get fired for not doing Gar's job for him. That is why Gar was hired into his current position.
Paxson has been on the job collecting paychecks for 12+ years now.

In that time there has been very little meaningful success.

Paxson failed as a GM absurdly thinking that a core of Hinrich-Gordon-Deng-Nocioni was a contender. Comical in hindsight.

Instead of being held accountable for his failure, he was kicked upstairs and the Gar position was created.

Paxson physically attacked a head coach.
Paxson was the head of an organization that performed a brutal media smear against a good man in Thibs.
Paxson's teams don't accomplish much of note.

I guess at some point you would like to think that people are held accountable for poor performance. Especially after over a decade of collecting paychecks.

On the basketball court, if the goal is to win in a meaningful fashion, the organization Paxson runs has not accomplished much in 12+ (!!!!) years of collecting paychecks. The profits are through the roof though, which of course if the bottom line.

As for Gar, yes, he'll be fired next. That's why the position was created. Paxson tired of explaining away his bad decisions and answering to the media, so a Gar was created. Now Gar will take the fall.

I prefer the job Gar has done as "GM" to the one Paxson did. There have been solid draft picks and some good free agent pickups as well. Also a bit less screwy "right way" / no headband nonsense.

Gar isn't the reason the Bulls organization is a dysfunctional mess. Its higher up than that. And yes, if you were going to do a deep dive in explaining what is actually going on, the Reinsdorfs would be involved as well. Getting rid of Thibs didn't change anything for the better. I doubt getting rid of Gar will either, but as always, we'll see.

Paxson is the VP of BASKETBALL OPERATIONS. The buck stops with him basketball wise. There is also a general counsel/finance guy at Paxson's level it seems. Paxson is the top basketball guy. How is the basketball product looking?

How many Gars does Paxson get? 3?

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Old 02-11-2016, 07:15 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Why do you always have to include some sort of shot at Thibs whether this stuff comes up lol.

Thibs was only a problem to the egos of the front office. It's crystal clear now that there was no legit basketball reasons for his firing.

You mean like the players wanting him fired and refusing to train in Chicago in the offseason because they couldn't stand to be around Thibs? This is not a legit basketball reason?

It can both be true that the Thibs era had run its course and that Gar has not put together a championship roster. It's not an either or proposition.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:18 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Bulls Dysfunction

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Heck, Adrian Woj was taking about this stuff 2 seasons ago. Is his credibility on the line?

Wait, you've never heard about Woj's credibility problems? He's definitely the #1 person at breaking transactional news, but he was caught essentially writing positive pieces about Joe Dumars job managing the Pistons in exchange for inside info.

https://newrepublic.com/article/1205...ets-his-scoops
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