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Old 06-22-2016, 02:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Gar calling this a retooling lol wtf. It's like replacing name brand cereal with the generic brand.

I'm so sick of this franchise, all the bullshit they feed to the fanbase. Just be honest and say that rose was traded for the obvious fucking reasons, instead they spin it like they are making the team better.

Trade Jimmy, fire everyone. I'm ready for new ownership.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:54 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

would you rather start noah or gasol? both have playoff expereince. one has championships. finals game 7 who would you start?
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
Gar calling this a retooling lol wtf. It's like replacing name brand cereal with the generic brand.

I'm so sick of this franchise, all the bullshit they feed to the fanbase. Just be honest and say that rose was traded for the obvious fucking reasons, instead they spin it like they are making the team better.

Trade Jimmy, fire everyone. I'm ready for new ownership.
Listening to Gar talk is like listening to a really shitty corporate middle manager prattle on.

Many transparent lies / half-truths coming out of his mouth.

As a Bulls fan, you can't take what he says at face value.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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When analyzing a trade you have to look at what the goal for the team is.

Does this trade, alone, represent a clear move to "win later?" No. If the goal was to blow this team up, this is a step in the wrong direction, given the Lopez contract.

Does this trade, along, represent a clear move to "win now?" No. Even if we replaced Rose from last season with Lopez that won't move the needle in a meaningful way.

What does it actually accomplish for management?

It gets them off the hook for having to make a very hard decision next off-season regarding Derrick Rose, especially since he's going to be going balls-out to have a great season in his contract year, assuming the fire in his belly for such things still exists. And if Rose had a great season, it would be a management nightmare decision.

They also had a somewhat tough call regarding Noah. This move gets them off the hook on not bringing back a popular player.


The Bulls are not currently markedly better now then they were this morning. The Bulls might be worse off for this upcoming season, if Rose did have one monster contract year season left in the tank. But if that happened, management had an impossible choice.

Management now doesn't have to make that choice. That's why this trade was made.
I think the bolded portion is pretty far off the mark. They just traded the most beloved Bull since MJ. In no way whatsoever did this get the front office "off the hook" for anything. They now have their necks stuck out there if Rose blows up this season.

The same is somewhat true if they let Noah walk.

This is very much the Bulls saying "we're moving on from these guys." The way they protect themselves with the fans is to take no action and have Rose/Noah move on for greener pastures, allowing the FO to say "we tried."
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

new to this forum how do i check my replies? would be greatly appreciated?
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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I think the bolded portion is pretty far off the mark. They just traded the most beloved Bull since MJ. In no way whatsoever did this get the front office "off the hook" for anything. They now have their necks stuck out there if Rose blows up this season.
Right, but they would have been in even worse shape if he blew it up this season for the Bulls.

That would have been a nightmare scenario and an impossible choice for GarPax.

Now they don't have to make it.

And they don't really like dealing with BJ / Reggie / Team Rose.

But you are right, if he blows up on the Knicks, they may catch some heat.


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This is very much the Bulls saying "we're moving on from these guys." The way they protect themselves with the fans is to take no action and have Rose/Noah move on for greener pastures, allowing the FO to say "we tried."

Not if Rose wanted to earn that 2nd monster deal this season and had one more season in him. Letting him walk makes them look terrible. Resigning him for market value is probably something they didn't want to do.

If Rose was still meh Rose, you are right, then they had their out by letting him walk. Bulls would have been better off for the rebuild most likely as well, with increased cap space.

Lopez is a good contract, but doesn't really help you tank or win something of note.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:04 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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new to this forum how do i check my replies? would be greatly appreciated?
You should see it in the "Your Notifications" thing under your username at the top right of the screen.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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What would be the better course of action vis a vis Derrick Rose if the goal is to win a championship?
Can you think of any other way these Bulls can acquire a superstar other than high lotto picks?

They have not shown the ability to trade for one or acquire one via FA.

That leaves getting high lotto picks either by trade or losing.

But, given GarPax are calling the shots and lucked into the Rose pick and didn't realize how much of the winning they trumpet was due to Thibs, it really might not matter.

Its going to be really hard to luck into another #1 pick and have a cabinet member give the owner a hot tip on a world-class coach again.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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Right, but they would have been in even worse shape if he blew it up this season for the Bulls.

That would have been a nightmare scenario and an impossible choice for GarPax.

Now they don't have to make it.

And they don't really like dealing with BJ / Reggie / Team Rose.

But you are right, if he blows up on the Knicks, they may catch some heat.
What are the chances Rose plays at a very high level this year? Not great, based on the last four seasons. Is it really the better move to just watch him walk in free agency, particularly given reports that Rose did not want to stay? To me, it'd be irresponsible to do anything other than deal him for the best possible return.



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Not if Rose wanted to earn that 2nd monster deal this season and had one more season in him. Letting him walk makes them look terrible. Resigning him for market value is probably something they didn't want to do.

If Rose was still meh Rose, you are right, then they had their out by letting him walk. Bulls would have been better off for the rebuild most likely as well, with increased cap space.

Lopez is a good contract, but doesn't really help you tank or win something of note.
Lopez is good enough to be the 5 on a competing team, but not good enough to carry anyone. Basically, he's a fit whether you're in team tank or team compete. His deal is also cheap enough that it can be moved if better options come along.

Would you rather just roll with Felicio next year? You do have to put out some sort of roster.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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You should see it in the "Your Notifications" thing under your username at the top right of the screen.
thank you!
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:10 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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Can you think of any other way these Bulls can acquire a superstar other than high lotto picks?

They have not shown the ability to trade for one or acquire one via FA.

That leaves getting high lotto picks either by trade or losing.

But, given GarPax are calling the shots and lucked into the Rose pick and didn't realize how much of the winning they trumpet was due to Thibs, it really might not matter.

Its going to be really hard to luck into another #1 pick and have a cabinet member give the owner a hot tip on a world-class coach again.
I reject the idea that the Bulls can only rebuild through the draft, so yes, I don't find this particularly compelling. But let's accept your premise. You should be for this deal. The only downside of this deal is potentially long-term cap space, which you contend is not an asset. Do you really think that Lopez, Grant, and Calderon prevent tank aspirations next season? Heck, getting a 2nd year first round pick PG and giving him big minutes is exactly what a team would do if trying to tank and build around young guys.

If you want high picks, the only option is to move Jimmy. And that's fine, but that has nothing to do with whether the Rose deal was good or bad.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:19 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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I reject the idea that the Bulls can only rebuild through the draft, so yes, I don't find this particularly compelling.
What evidence do you have that GarPax or Pax have the ability to land the needed 1A talent by other means?


Quote:
But let's accept your premise. You should be for this deal. The only downside of this deal is potentially long-term cap space, which you contend is not an asset. Do you really think that Lopez, Grant, and Calderon prevent tank aspirations next season?
I'm not really for it or against it. I have little faith they will hit in FA, so the cap space isn't worth much. But its a chance. Lopez isn't a real difference maker one way or the other. They will probably just overpay a Ryan Anderson or Harrison Barnes type.

Its just sad really, to see what happened with the insane luck of getting the Rose pick and actually getting a MVP level player, and have it all fall apart.

Sad day to see the book closed on Rose.

Its not a bad trade for what management wants to do with the team.

Quote:
If you want high picks, the only option is to move Jimmy. And that's fine, but that has nothing to do with whether the Rose deal was good or bad.
High picks via trade or losing. I have little faith in this management team making trades or landing free agents to land a superstar.

This roster might make the 1st round of the playoffs and finish above .500. That's the goal and they very well might get back there.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

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What are the chances Rose plays at a very high level this year? Not great, based on the last four seasons. Is it really the better move to just watch him walk in free agency, particularly given reports that Rose did not want to stay? To me, it'd be irresponsible to do anything other than deal him for the best possible return.
I don't really know. He has diminished physically, but I never knew how much of his decline was "want to."

Is he going to try to make the violent cuts and take the nightly beatings he took during his MVP season again to earn another big deal? I don't know.

If he reaches maximum "want to" again, can he be a top NBA guy physically? I don't know.




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Would you rather just roll with Felicio next year? You do have to put out some sort of roster.
Yah, either way, they are not contending for a title.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:23 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Jimmy Butler for Kevin Martin and Andre Miller plus a future top 30 protected first rounder. Get it done garpax.
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Old 06-22-2016, 03:27 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Derrick Rose to Knicks

its a longshot but what if by some divine miracle the bulls were able to pick up kevin durant?
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