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Old 08-10-2011, 09:36 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclusion

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The enraged player and his teammates could hardly believe what they had seen in the previous inning. As they sat on the perch above the right-field bullpen at Rogers, they caught sight of a man dressed in white about 25 yards to their right, out among the blue center-field seats. And while the players watched, the man in white seemingly signaled the pitches the visiting pitcher was throwing against the Jays, according to four sources in the bullpen that day.

The players weren't exactly sure how the man in white knew what was coming -- maybe, they thought, he was receiving messages via his Bluetooth from an ally elsewhere in the stadium who had binoculars or access to the stadium feed. But they quickly picked up the wavelength of his transmissions: He was raising his arms over his head for curveballs, sliders and changeups. In other words, anything besides fastballs.

A few of the players in the bullpen turned their backs to the field to fixate on the man in white, while others watched the stadium's radar gun. As soon as each pitch was thrown, those watching the man would call out what they thought he was signaling, and those focused on the radar gun would confirm his signal. Sure enough, the man in white was raising his arms above his head before every off-speed pitch and doing nothing when the pitch being called was a fastball.

Some guys on that team had actually seen the same man making the same motions in 2009. But that had been in the last series of the season against Toronto, and they let it go. Now, stunned not only that the man in white was back but that he was accurately calling every pitch, a call was made to the dugout, and the coaching staff was given the following message: Start using multiple signs, even with no one on base.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...-rogers-centre
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

I have exclusive photos of the mysterious "Man in white".

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Old 08-10-2011, 09:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

On a serious note, even if the Blue Jays are stealing signs, do you really believe that other teams aren't doing it? Is this baseball we're talking about?

Not to mention the idea of putting some dude in the out field relaying signs sounds ridiculously stupid considering the type of technology that is available today.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

I suggest MLB counter this by giving catchers and pitchers equipment to communicate electronically. You give the catcher some sort of device that tells the pitcher what type of pitch to throw, and all the catcher do then is give sign for location.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

This is only surprising because it sounds like they are not doing a very good job of hiding the signaller. Stealing signs is a part of the game. It's only a crime if you get caught.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

there is a big difference between stealing signs competitively in game and using them to your advantage and having a spy in the bleachers waving his arms around
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

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there is a big difference between stealing signs competitively in game and using them to your advantage and having a spy in the bleachers waving his arms around
If I owned a team and the guy whom I pay millions to tells me that theres a way for my team to win more games but for whatever reason we're not using, I would fire the guy for being stupid.

I repeat. This is baseball we're talking about. Just like all professional sports your win/loss record determines how much revenue your team generates. We are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars and we're using a honor system to regulate this business. You have to be naive to a moronic level to believe that teams actually abide by some sort of honor system. If there is a loophole in the system, blame the system, not the guys that exploit the loophole.

I mean really, we live in a world where news organizations are tapping your phones and we expect that a guy pointing finger codes at his crotch is enough to protect a billion dollar business. I can't begin to fathom the idiocy required to see logic behind this.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

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If I owned a team and the guy whom I pay millions to tells me that theres a way for my team to win more games but for whatever reason we're not using, I would fire the guy for being stupid.

I repeat. This is baseball we're talking about. Just like all professional sports your win/loss record determines how much revenue your team generates. We are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars and we're using a honor system to regulate this business. You have to be naive to a moronic level to believe that teams actually abide by some sort of honor system. If there is a loophole in the system, blame the system, not the guys that exploit the loophole.

I mean really, we live in a world where news organizations are tapping your phones and we expect that a guy pointing finger codes at his crotch is enough to protect a billion dollar business. I can't begin to fathom the idiocy required to see logic behind this.
I have no problems stealing signs in the right context... but having a spy system in your park is ****ing pathetic, i get you being defensive about it since you are apparently a blue jays fan.. but its pretty much the lowest form of "legal cheating" there is.. and the worst thing is all it may net you is a home run title for Bautista in an otherwise lost season to go with a tarnished reputation... im sure other teams do it, but if you get caught the least you can do is take your medicine
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

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I have no problems stealing signs in the right context... but having a spy system in your park is ****ing pathetic, i get you being defensive about it since you are apparently a blue jays fan.. but its pretty much the lowest form of "legal cheating" there is.. and the worst thing is all it may net you is a home run title for Bautista in an otherwise lost season to go with a tarnished reputation... im sure other teams do it, but if you get caught the least you can do is take your medicine
Again, you have to be extremely naive to believe that teams don't have some sort of system to steal signs. Are you not aware that there are cameras in the ballpark? We're not talking about some sort of elaborate system here. All a team has to do is find a way to relay this information to the batter, the information is already there. I don't know what kind of person would believe that in this day and age teams would not find ways to get this competitive edge. In fact, I don't even think it's an edge any more because teams have to be doing it already.

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and the worst thing is all it may net you is a home run title for Bautista in an otherwise lost season to go with a tarnished reputation
Absolutely wrong here.

Do you not realize that the Jays led the majors in homeruns last year by an incredible margin? Do you not realize the type of ticket revenue this translates? Do you not understand that this is a billion dollar industry? I mean let's go with your logic and the only thing this thievery led to was Bautista's homerun title. Do you not understand the amount of jersey and other memorabilia sales this led to? This little trick has generated millions of dollars for the Jays.

Again, on field performance will eventually equate to $$. Teams are out there to make money. These aren't a bunch of kids playing a game for fun. The only way to prevent teams cheating is to have punishment in place so that the risk isn't worth the reward. Right now the risk is less than the reward and that's why it doesn't make any sense to assume that teams aren't taking advantage. That's not the teams fault, that's the system's fault.

Btw, there is no evidence that the Jays are stealing signs using this method because frankly having a dude in whites waving arms in the stands sounds retarded. The Jays aren't "caught" because they found this mysterious white dude. I'm simply pointing out that this idea of the Jays are stealing signs is ridiculous because every team is stealing signs.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

Thanks for explaining to me that baseball is a billion dollar industry, i had no idea. I acknowledged the fact that other teams probably do it, i also acknowledge the fact that they technically didnt do anything wrong from a rules standpoint, but getting caught is an EMBARASSMENT.. you cant cut it any other way, and giving me an economics lesson to back up why they were doing it is pointless.. really ..home runs equal revenue?.. wins generate fans?.. how have i never thought of that before. All teams in all sports cheat in some way, everyone is aware of that, but if you get caught you damn well better expect some backlash at least verbally from other fans and in the media
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

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Originally Posted by roux2dope View Post
Thanks for explaining to me that baseball is a billion dollar industry, i had no idea. I acknowledged the fact that other teams probably do it, i also acknowledge the fact that they technically didnt do anything wrong from a rules standpoint, but getting caught is an EMBARASSMENT.. you cant cut it any other way, and giving me an economics lesson to back up why they were doing it is pointless.. really ..home runs equal revenue?.. wins generate fans?.. how have i never thought of that before. All teams in all sports cheat in some way, everyone is aware of that, but if you get caught you damn well better expect some backlash at least verbally from other fans and in the media
Well, I don't know how you come up with the conclusion that stealing signs only yielded Bautista's home run title. For someone who's aware of the economics implications, this is a ridiculous understatement.

Again, I started the thread by sarcastically poking fun at the idea that the Jays relied on some dude in white waving arms in the stands. If you feel that the Jays are "caught" this way by all means enjoy the reaction that comes with it. Myself however finds the whole thing retarded because there are a million ways to relay signs to the batter and I'm about 26 years too old to believe that this is the way that they chose to go about it.

The rest of my posts are targeting towards whoever that feels that teams aren't already stealing signs. If you don't disagree, we have nothing to argue about.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

I hope they go back to this system.. Cause since they have been discovered bautista has slowed down... Sooo let them finish out the season. Need bautista to go back to being the right handed barry bonds he was earlier for my money league.. Cmon joey bats!
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

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I hope they go back to this system.. Cause since they have been discovered bautista has slowed down... Sooo let them finish out the season. Need bautista to go back to being the right handed barry bonds he was earlier for my money league.. Cmon joey bats!
Bautista suffered an ankle injury back in July 14 playing against the Yankees. Before that game he was on a streak where he hit 7 homeruns in 10 games. The injury caused him to miss 3 games and he ended up not homering for another 12 afterwards.

We've seen Bautista hit homeruns in bunches though. It would surprise me if he doesn't at least hit 45 this year.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

Why would the "man in white" do it from a seat in the stands when at the Rogers Centre we have a restaurant and hotel overlooking the field, where they could watch the game on tv and relay it to the batter that way? I mean with the helmet on you can hide plenty of ear devices to relay messages. Also, I was just at a home game and never saw a man in white and I was sitting near the area they are talking about. The Jays have not been caught doing anything. It's just one writer's opinion based on information he supposedly has and is extrapolating from. Just like when a writer writes a trade rumour article of a trade that never occurs.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:30 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: The Blue Jays deny they're stealing signs -- evidence may lead to another conclus

Toronto having no (official) complaints filed against them says a lot too.
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