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Old 10-02-2014, 05:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Help grade / compare these players...

1- How do you rank these players, considering their position, all-time?

Bob Cousy (PG);

Hondo (SF);

Dwyane Wade (SG);

Shaq (C).

2- Who is/was better?

Hondo/Barry/Pippen/Dominique
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

1. Shaq
2. Wade
3. Havlicek
4. Cousy

2 and 3 could reasonably be swapped


2: Really close, I really couldn't say
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyaging View Post
1. Shaq
2. Wade
3. Havlicek
4. Cousy

2 and 3 could reasonably be swapped


2: Really close, I really couldn't say
What exactly puts Wade ahead of Hondo and Cousy?
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

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Originally Posted by l0st1 View Post
What exactly puts Wade ahead of Hondo and Cousy?
Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.
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Old 10-03-2014, 05:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

he invented shit these guys take for granted
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Are we sure Shaq should be above Hondo?
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyaging View Post
Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.
different league at a different time .

one thing people overlook when comparing eras is who much more physical the league so everyone sh

but the Celtics during Cousy's time was usually the best offensive team in the league before Russell got there and they were remade into a defense 1st unit around Russell's abilities

so while personally shot inefficiently his team was still the most efficient in great part due to his playmaking abilities.
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:46 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PauloCatarino View Post
1- How do you rank these players, considering their position, all-time?

Bob Cousy (PG);

Hondo (SF);

Dwyane Wade (SG);

Shaq (C).

2- Who is/was better?

Hondo/Barry/Pippen/Dominique
I'd have Shaq number 1, the other 3 really could be in any order...although, I would most likely have Wade 4.

The 2nd question, Pippen is clearly #1 , and Barry is clearly #4 ...
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-monk View Post
he invented shit these guys take for granted

Many people sleep on Cousy.
Myself, i'm having a hard time deciding between Oscar Robertson and Bob Cousy as the Second greatest PG of all time (considering West a SG).
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Old 10-03-2014, 06:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

[uote=Firefight;11901777]I'd have Shaq number 1, the other 3 really could be in any order...although, I would most likely have Wade 4. [quote]

Wel, what i really meant was ranking the players in their respective positions. As in, Snaq O'Meal vs Wilt, Russell, KAJ, Hakeem, etc; Wade vs Jordan, Kobe, etc...
But no problem.


Quote:
The 2nd question, Pippen is clearly #1 , and Barry is clearly #4 ...
Plase explain, because this is borderline blasphemy!
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

Quote:
Originally Posted by e-monk View Post
he invented shit these guys take for granted
Indeed, I'm not trying to diminish his significance in the history of basketball by any means.

We need to define what exactly we're ranking these players. I was ranking them based on, if they replaced an average starter at that position today, how many more wins do I think that team would that earn compared to with the average starter?

If we're including historical significance, then Cousy would probably be at #1 .
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

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Like I said, Havlicek could be reasonably considered #2 .

Cousy is considered great because he was one of the great foundational players in the league.

Realistically, he was abysmally inefficient in an even weaker league than Wade, compared to the efficiency of today's players. He'd be a D-league player at best if he played today.

You're kidding right?

Cousy was one of the best passing pgs in history. Some of the top passers in the last 15-20 years studied Cousy and emulated many things he did.

Sure his fg% is crappy but the league as a whole shot quite a bit lower than what the NBA is like today. Sorry but saying he would be a "D-league player at best" is a completely moronic statement to make. Considering you have guys like Rondo and Rubio doing just fine in the league, Cousy would be just fine.
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

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Originally Posted by l0st1 View Post
You're kidding right?

Cousy was one of the best passing pgs in history. Some of the top passers in the last 15-20 years studied Cousy and emulated many things he did.

Sure his fg% is crappy but the league as a whole shot quite a bit lower than what the NBA is like today.
That doesn't make him better lol just cause he played with worse players. His APG was pretty good, but he also played huge minutes. His FG% was low enough to where he wouldn't even make the NBA today, and it's not like he didn't shoot a lot either. Turnovers weren't even tracked so we don't know whether he even had a good assist/TO ratio.

Players are just (much) better today. Cousy was a "great" player, but if we compare against today, he was not a "good" player.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

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That doesn't make him better lol just cause he played with worse players. His APG was pretty good, but he also played huge minutes. His FG% was low enough to where he wouldn't even make the NBA today, and it's not like he didn't shoot a lot either. Turnovers weren't even tracked so we don't know whether he even had a good assist/TO ratio.

Players are just (much) better today. Cousy was a "great" player, but if we compare against today, he was not a "good" player.
I will ignore your distinction of him not being a "good" player and simply refer again to your claim that he would be a "d-league player at best" in todays NBA.

10.1ppg 8.1apg 3.4rpg 37% from the field. That's one of the young PGs in the NBA that is currently negotiating an extension with his team and was widely regarded as one of the best passers in the NBA.

It was a different game back then and different technology. So if you are comparing players relative to their era then Cousy easily ranks up there. If you are literally taking a guy that played in the 50s/60s and moving him into todays NBA then no Cousy wouldn't hold up. But if your question is the latter then this thread is a waste of time. 99% of players back then wouldn't hold up in todays NBA. Training, fitness, technology, information, everything is far superior to that era and because of that players are far more advanced physically.

Considering eras, Cousy was the better player compared to Wade. Easily. And when you factor in his longevity, control of the game, and success it's not close.
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Old 10-03-2014, 01:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Help grade / compare these players...

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Considering eras, Cousy was the better player compared to Wade. Easily. And when you factor in his longevity, control of the game, and success it's not close.
Well that's the issue, I wasn't considering eras :P

Considering eras, Cousy is one of the greatest players ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by l0st1 View Post
It was a different game back then and different technology. So if you are comparing players relative to their era then Cousy easily ranks up there. If you are literally taking a guy that played in the 50s/60s and moving him into todays NBA then no Cousy wouldn't hold up. But if your question is the latter then this thread is a waste of time. 99% of players back then wouldn't hold up in todays NBA. Training, fitness, technology, information, everything is far superior to that era and because of that players are far more advanced physically.
Yeah, that's my whole point haha, so we are in agreement.

If we don't compare objectively it becomes practically a popularity contest.


Yeah, I'll admit my "D-league player at best" was an exaggeration, I'll rescind that comment

I also think you're massively underrating Wade.
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