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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
The night belongs to Vermont- no one will beat them when they shoot like that. As season goes on and teams get out of the covid slumps I expect the gap to close. I still don’t think this Vermont team is as dominant as past teams. They didn’t win league or tournament last year. Don’t get me wrong there the team to beat but I am not crowning them this early. I am suprised Lowell lost at Albany, Lowell needs to figure scoring out to be dangerous, they have the athleticism and defense.
 

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Lowell led much of the 2nd half but only scored 12 in the last 14 minutes, were out scored 11-0 in the last 3. They also had 21 turnovers to Albany’s 8. But neither team could shoot a lick, on the floor, three-pointers, or free throws
 

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Tired: UVM made a million 3-pointers.
Wired: Isaiah Powell was 3 points and an assist away from a triple-double.

Two big statements in a row for the Cats. We've got a looooooong way to go, still another 16* games left in the regular season. But 2-0 against two teams in the general "contender" pool is where you want to be. We'll know a lot more after travelling to UMBC this weekend.

I'll admit, I still wasn't as comfortable as I could have been at halftime. While most people were looking at the 53 we hung (and I was looking over there a little), I was more focused on the 39 we surrendered. Nice to see us tighten up in the 2nd and really salt this one away.

Someone asked about Gibson: was he even dressed, or in attendance, tonight? He was in attendance but not dressed against UNH. Nursing an injury? Illness? Could be either.
 

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SBU didn't guard closely at all and left UVM wide open on many of their shots. Ford didn't make any defensive adjustments at halftime that I noticed.

SBU didn't pass the ball well and played hero ball most of the second half. I think they had 3 assists for the half.

Powell had almost as many rebounds and assists as the whole SBU team.

I think UVM had a message to send about the pre-season predictions. Message successfully delivered.
As a program and over time, it just feels like SBU is a punchline that never fails to disappoint. It's not like they are terrible (they might even, again, squeeze out 20 wins this season, which is nothing to sneeze at), but they always seem to under-perform, come up short, or simply and shockingly collapse when the spotlight turns on them. Despite noise and hype, they tend to end up a mostly uninteresting non-player in an overall consistently weak AE field. Feels like they are trending in that direction again this season...
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Thats very true , I remember Albany knocked them off a few years with Warney, Warney was above and beyond dominant for the league. I think geographically and campus/facilities wise Stony Brook may be the best job in the America East (Vermont and Umbc can also comment). It was also a Wednesday night game in dead of winter at the start of conference play. If Ford can get this team together they can be dangerous. Vermonts advantage right now is they have the best coach in the league, they have talent but its not head and shoulders above league like it was when lamb played, they also have had few if any disruptions for covid somehow. Stony brook does have too many no show type performances in big games I would agree.
 

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As a program and over time, it just feels like SBU is a punchline that never fails to disappoint. It's not like they are terrible (they might even, again, squeeze out 20 wins this season, which is nothing to sneeze at), but they always seem to under-perform, come up short, or simply and shockingly collapse when the spotlight turns on them. Despite noise and hype, they tend to end up a mostly uninteresting non-player in an overall consistently weak AE field. Feels like they are trending in that direction again this season...
While UVM's record against SBU has been very good (I believe that I read that UVM has one loss in the last 5 years), let's not get too excited about burning SBU down. They have impressive talent on their roster. They seem to recruit well. They've been consistently near the top of the conference. The problem, as I see it, is the X's and O's. When I watched SBU at the beginning of the season, they were an undisciplined, hot mess. Last night, they were much better, but they still like to play isolation ball. It was hard to discern much of their offense especially in the second half. As talented as many of their guys are, they can probably get away with just letting their guys beat their defender on most nights. It almost seems like the coaching staff is content to try to just outscore their opponents. They were very soft on defense. UVM moved the ball well and were unconscious shooting the ball, but even early in the game, it just seemed like SBU had no desire to play anything more than token defense. If SBU continues to improve as much as they have from the beginning of the season, between now and the tournament, they will be a scary team to play. If they don't learn how to defend, they will not make the championship game.
 

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While UVM's record against SBU has been very good (I believe that I read that UVM has one loss in the last 5 years), let's not get too excited about burning SBU down. They have impressive talent on their roster. They seem to recruit well. They've been consistently near the top of the conference. The problem, as I see it, is the X's and O's. When I watched SBU at the beginning of the season, they were an undisciplined, hot mess. Last night, they were much better, but they still like to play isolation ball. It was hard to discern much of their offense especially in the second half. As talented as many of their guys are, they can probably get away with just letting their guys beat their defender on most nights. It almost seems like the coaching staff is content to try to just outscore their opponents. They were very soft on defense. UVM moved the ball well and were unconscious shooting the ball, but even early in the game, it just seemed like SBU had no desire to play anything more than token defense. If SBU continues to improve as much as they have from the beginning of the season, between now and the tournament, they will be a scary team to play. If they don't learn how to defend, they will not make the championship game.
As I stated in the pre-season prediction thread it seems like so many people are always clinging on to the “Stony Brook is so talented” narrative and ignore their actual past and present records. At what point will people accept that Stony Brook isn’t a top tier AE program and hasn’t been for the last couple years?

I agree that they are able to recruit, especially JuCo and transfer players, at a level that no other AE program can. But when their recruiting ability doesn’t translate to on-court success you need to look at other metrics. This is not a dis to SBU, rather just criticism to all the people who hype up Stony Brook year after year, then midway through the season, when SBU has a mediocre record and is taking 30+ point shellackings, they still have defenders (and most of the SBU’s most loyal and ardent defenders are actually UVM fans!) who go on about how great this team is or can be, and how talented their roster is. When are we allowed to make judgements based on actual performance rather than hypotheticals based on alleged roster talent? It’s a borderline obsession that many UVM fans have with SBU.
 

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SBU had a lot of high profile grad transfers come in and definitely has a collection of individual talent, but not easy to get them all to coalesce and buy-in in what is a short amount of time in a season that's still being disrupted by COVID. UVM has a bunch of players that have been in the program a long time at this point, and that's quite obviously a big edge.

Also, Olayini leaving SBU going to Miami and then leaving Miami coming back to SBU is not typical.
 
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All good and fair points re SBU, this season and over the years. Of course time will tell this season. Certainly true that SBU has a "new" team with some dynamic talent. And then throw covid in the mix.

Going back to those Warney years, which in the broad span were the obvious high point for the program to date: I was at all 3 of the championship games with a rooting interest in SBU.

Still feels like they should have won all 3 of them, and at the same time feels like they were enormously lucky to barely win 1 of them. If that makes sense.

Anyway, it's history like that combined with either an inability to rise above expectations (recent example, losing to Hartford--who admittedly was the better team--at home in the 2019/20 semis) or just flat out poor performances in big games (dismantled by #7 Bing at home in the 2018/19 first round) since that era tend to color one's perspective and expectations regarding SBU basketball!
 

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As I stated in the pre-season prediction thread it seems like so many people are always clinging on to the “Stony Brook is so talented” narrative and ignore their actual past and present records. At what point will people accept that Stony Brook isn’t a top tier AE program and hasn’t been for the last couple years?

I agree that they are able to recruit, especially JuCo and transfer players, at a level that no other AE program can. But when their recruiting ability doesn’t translate to on-court success you need to look at other metrics. This is not a dis to SBU, rather just criticism to all the people who hype up Stony Brook year after year, then midway through the season, when SBU has a mediocre record and is taking 30+ point shellackings, they still have defenders (and most of the SBU’s most loyal and ardent defenders are actually UVM fans!) who go on about how great this team is or can be, and how talented their roster is. When are we allowed to make judgements based on actual performance rather than hypotheticals based on alleged roster talent? It’s a borderline obsession that many UVM fans have with SBU.
The AE coaches thought enough of SBU to name them the preseason favorites.

My respect for SBU is based on the fact that they have the second most regular season championships (after UVM) going back the last 15 years. They have twice as many as the next two contenders. I'm not going to get excited about some upstart program that has a hot season here or there. I care about programs that can sustain winning a lot of games over a long period of time...but I guess, that's just me...
 

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Forgot that SBU was chosen #1 in coaches poll. Not sure what that exactly says about the confidence AE coaches have in the league & themselves if would choose a team first on the basis of signing a couple grad transfers Jon Rothstein would get excited about on Twitter, but I digress.
 

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Of course there's still plenty of time for Stony Brook to put it together. They really missed Guye, such an inside presence, now doing it in the ACC.
 

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I just re-watched the UVM/SBU game "game tape" style, so I could see what was really going on. UVM's big burst int the last 5 minutes of the 1st half and the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half really demoralized the SBU players. They knew that they were behind by a lot and they kind of gave up. Their defense consisted of standing 10 or 15 feet from the player they were "guarding" with their hands down. UVM then moved the ball around easily to someone so open that even a bad pass wouldn't stop the shot from being taken with the shooter still having at least 5 feet clear. Sullivan hammered a whole bunch of nails into SBU's coffin without having to worry about COVID exposure from his "defender". SBU obviously thought they would win, and the truth crushed them.

The next UVM/SBU game might very well be a dogfight, but from what I saw on the "tape" if UVM starts fast SBU will probably fold again. The mental game is soooo important.
 

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I just re-watched the UVM/SBU game "game tape" style, so I could see what was really going on. UVM's big burst int the last 5 minutes of the 1st half and the first 5 minutes of the 2nd half really demoralized the SBU players. They knew that they were behind by a lot and they kind of gave up. Their defense consisted of standing 10 or 15 feet from the player they were "guarding" with their hands down. UVM then moved the ball around easily to someone so open that even a bad pass wouldn't stop the shot from being taken with the shooter still having at least 5 feet clear. Sullivan hammered a whole bunch of nails into SBU's coffin without having to worry about COVID exposure from his "defender". SBU obviously thought they would win, and the truth crushed them.

The next UVM/SBU game might very well be a dogfight, but from what I saw on the "tape" if UVM starts fast SBU will probably fold again. The mental game is soooo important.
When I look at Vermont's game, I am struck by the maturity and control with which players operate. Seldom do you see wild, circus shots. There is usually organization to the offense and guys generally stay in their lane as to what they try to do. Becker seems to demand the same of his players. The facts VT went 11-12 deep in the last game and there was very little drop off in productivity speaks volumes about the depth of the program. Very doubtful we will see so much of the bench playing regularly, but I think the team is in a good place right now. And all that says nothing about the intensity and organization of its defense. For sure there are tight games ahead, but the rest of the league is on notice that they have a ton to prepare for before playing Vermont.
 
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