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Discussion Starter #1


We all know that Magic won FMVP, but did he deserve it? What about Kareem? Or Nixon? Or Julius Erving? Or Andrew Toney?

I'm looking for opinions from those who have watched the series (I just recently watched it myself). Thanks....
 

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they got it right - all of the three lakers had a clunker game or two but if memory serves magic logged a near triple double for the series
 

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Discussion Starter #4
they got it right - all of the three lakers had a clunker game or two but if memory serves magic logged a near triple double for the series
Do you think that a player on the losing team should never win FMVP? If so, sure, Magic was marginally the Lakers best player, despite not being the primary ball handler/playmaker, or half court scorer. His rebounding was key, I guess.
 

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the Lakers won that series? not sure what you're saying? are you asking vis Doc or something? I guess there's a precedent for that with the Logo but I dont think Doc had that transcendent a series and it didnt even go 7 games
 

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the Lakers won that series? not sure what you're saying? are you asking vis Doc or something? I guess there's a precedent for that with the Logo but I dont think Doc had that transcendent a series and it didnt even go 7 games
Not Doc, Andrew Toney. To me, he was the best player on the floor across the whole series. Magic was MIA in 3 whole games. He was on the periphery for big chuncks of the series. I'm leaning towards Toney as FMVP, but it's very close.
 

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Not Doc, Andrew Toney. To me, he was the best player on the floor across the whole series. Magic was MIA in 3 whole games. He was on the periphery for big chuncks of the series. I'm leaning towards Toney as FMVP, but it's very close.
yeah, no - he averaged in the high 20s for a team that lost in 6 games - it's not close, it's not even a question - in 69 West averaged 38 ppg and hit big shot after big shot in a 7 game series that wound up being decided by 2 pts in game 7 (a game in which West put up 42p 13r 12a) - he scored 40 3 times and put up 53 in the opening game - if he hadnt gotten hurt....

as for Magic here are his 6 games:

10-14-9
18-11-7
22-9-8
24-8-7
10-10-4
13-13-13
--------
16-11-8

game 5 was a stinker (which other two was he MIA in? or do you just count scoring?)
 

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yeah, no - he averaged in the high 20s for a team that lost in 6 games - it's not close, it's not even a question - West average 38 ppg and hit big shot after big shot in a 7 game series that wound up being decided by 2 pts in game 7 (a game in which West put up 42p 13r 12a)

as for Magic here are his 6 games:

10-14-9
18-11-7
22-9-8
24-8-7
10-10-4
13-13-13
--------
16-11-8

game 5 was a stinker (which other two was he MIA in? or do you just count scoring?)
Lmao. You are biased, irrational or just plain ignorant if you believe it's not close. I'm sure you did watch the series once upon a time, but not recently, that's for sure.

Games 1 and 2. Magic was UNINVOLVED and on the PERIPHERY through almost the whole of BOTH GAMES. There's no other way to put it. It was Norm Nixon in game 1 who was leading/running most of the fast breaks. It was Norm who was making the penetrative/incisive passes. Most of Magic's assists were from dumping the ball off to the nearest teammate. In my opinion, the Sixers would have won that game if Toney didn't hurt his knee in early in the 3rd quarter, as well. Philly were up 15 at halftime. They chucked away their entire lead and more in a woeful half-court shooting 3rd period. Toney was the only Sixer who was consistently creating his own shot throughout the series.

Game 2, he showed up FAR too late to the party. 6 of his 11 rebounds came in the 4th period with Philly already up double digits, for example. A couple of assists, too. Dr J also got loose on the offensive boards in the 1st half. He gave them the lead that Philly clung to for the rest of the game. Where was Magic's rebounding then? His 11 boards were WORTHLESS.

Toney got hurt in 3rd Q of game 1. Played limited minutes in the 2nd half. In game 2 he scored 10 points in the 3rd quarter - 10 points that could very well have saved the game for Philly in game 1 had he not got hurt. In game 3 his teammates forgot to tie their shoelaces. His 36 points in 36 minutes would have gotten a lot more respect otherwise. In game 4, a 29/11. The Doctor, much like Magic in the 1st couple games, showed up too late to the party. In the must-win game 5 he produced an almost flawless performance - 31 points, 8 assists, 13/18 from the floor. In game 6, a 29/6, although he didn't score a point in the last 4 minutes.

Toney was the most double teamed player of anyone in the series (Kareem was close). He made them pay with his passing. He averaged just 0.2 less assists than Magic!! He was BY FAR the most effective and productive offensive player. If his teammates showed up at more opportune moments and periods, Philly could definitely have won the series. He was certainly no Jerry West, but he DEFINITELY had a case for FMVP.
 

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Lmao. You are biased, irrational or just plain ignorant if you believe it's not close. I'm sure you did watch the series once upon a time, but not recently, that's for sure.
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I love when ignorant people start waving that word around, who taught it to you?

1 time they've awarded the finals MVP to a member of the losing team, 1 time, Once, 1 time, ever... in history (es claro tonto? una vez)

and that was to Jerry West and as I showed above he was just this side of Superman in that series

Toney was not any of that, "not even close" (there is a guy or guys every year who lead their teams in scoring in losing efforts in the finals - they dont get consideration) and the series "wasnt that close" in the first place

short of a Jerry West-like once in a generation under extraordinary circumstances performance awarding the finals MVP to a member of the losing team is not possibly happening on this planet, in this reality ever and that's what I mean by 'not close' - in other words it would never happen in a million f-ing years

get it? not close
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I love when ignorant people start waving that word around, who taught it to you?

1 time they've awarded the finals MVP to a member of the losing team, 1 time, Once, 1 time, ever... in history (es claro tonto? una vez)

and that was to Jerry West and as I showed above he was just this side of Superman in that series

Toney was not any of that, "not even close" (there is a guy or guys every year who lead their teams in scoring in losing efforts in the finals - they dont get consideration) and the series "wasnt that close" in the first place

short of a Jerry West-like once in a generation under extraordinary circumstances performance awarding the finals MVP to a member of the losing team is not possibly happening on this planet, in this reality ever and that's what I mean by 'not close' - in other words it would never happen in a million f-ing years

get it? not close
Loll. The fact that it almost never happens is completely and utterly irrelevant. I simply asked whether or not Magic DESERVED his award.
 

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And I like how you deleted my quick reasoning for the fact that Magic wasn't as good as his stats suggested, and Toney was, in your response. Good stuff.

So far, all your reasoning amounts to is "Magic had best stats on winning team. Ergo he should have won it". Watch the series and get back to me. It's on youtube....right now.
 

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And I like how you deleted my quick reasoning for the fact that Magic wasn't as good as his stats suggested, and Toney was, in your response. Good stuff.

So far, all your reasoning amounts to is "Magic had best stats on winning team. Ergo he should have won it". Watch the series and get back to me. It's on youtube....right now.
I stopped reading after you were insulting and Im sure it was foolishness anyway - triple doubles dont happen by accident and have just as much impact on a game if not more than volume scoring - Silk, Norm and Kareem were all averaging 20+ ppg - the Lakers needed board work (Kareem was not particularly involved in that series on that front) and got it from a guard

and Toney's team lost in a series that wasnt particularly close so you can keep your 'deserving' - one of the metrics for the award appears to be (except in cases of superhuman achievement) that your team wins, his didnt
 

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Lmao. You are biased, irrational or just plain ignorant if you believe it's not close. I'm sure you did watch the series once upon a time, but not recently, that's for sure.

Games 1 and 2. Magic was UNINVOLVED and on the PERIPHERY through almost the whole of BOTH GAMES. There's no other way to put it. It was Norm Nixon in game 1 who was leading/running most of the fast breaks. It was Norm who was making the penetrative/incisive passes. Most of Magic's assists were from dumping the ball off to the nearest teammate. In my opinion, the Sixers would have won that game if Toney didn't hurt his knee in early in the 3rd quarter, as well. Philly were up 15 at halftime. They chucked away their entire lead and more in a woeful half-court shooting 3rd period. Toney was the only Sixer who was consistently creating his own shot throughout the series.

Game 2, he showed up FAR too late to the party. 6 of his 11 rebounds came in the 4th period with Philly already up double digits, for example. A couple of assists, too. Dr J also got loose on the offensive boards in the 1st half. He gave them the lead that Philly clung to for the rest of the game. Where was Magic's rebounding then? His 11 boards were WORTHLESS.

Toney got hurt in 3rd Q of game 1. Played limited minutes in the 2nd half. In game 2 he scored 10 points in the 3rd quarter - 10 points that could very well have saved the game for Philly in game 1 had he not got hurt. In game 3 his teammates forgot to tie their shoelaces. His 36 points in 36 minutes would have gotten a lot more respect otherwise. In game 4, a 29/11. The Doctor, much like Magic in the 1st couple games, showed up too late to the party. In the must-win game 5 he produced an almost flawless performance - 31 points, 8 assists, 13/18 from the floor. In game 6, a 29/6, although he didn't score a point in the last 4 minutes.

Toney was the most double teamed player of anyone in the series (Kareem was close). He made them pay with his passing. He averaged just 0.2 less assists than Magic!! He was BY FAR the most effective and productive offensive player. If his teammates showed up at more opportune moments and periods, Philly could definitely have won the series. He was certainly no Jerry West, but he DEFINITELY had a case for FMVP.
Even if what you're saying is true and Toney was the best player on the floor in that series, it still isn't even close. West was completely dominant, his performance in that finals series has to be up there with the top ten most dominant finals performances ever. Toney's stats don't even come close to matching what West did against the Celtics, it isn't even comparable. Hell there are other series where people played better than Toney did and they were on the losing team in that finals series. West was just flat out dominant. Toney wasn't. If you know so much about both series then you should be able to figure out the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I stopped reading after you were insulting and Im sure it was foolishness anyway - triple doubles dont happen by accident and have just as much impact on a game if not more than volume scoring - Silk, Norm and Kareem were all averaging 20+ ppg - the Lakers needed board work (Kareem was not particularly involved in that series on that front) and got it from a guard

and Toney's team lost in a series that wasnt particularly close so you can keep your 'deserving' - one of the metrics for the award appears to be (except in cases of superhuman achievement) that your team wins, his didnt
I regret "insulting" you, even though I don't think it was that bad. It's a bad habit. So I do apologize.

However, if you want me to reply to you again then you'll have to read my response and get back to me.
 

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Even if what you're saying is true and Toney was the best player on the floor in that series, it still isn't even close. West was completely dominant, his performance in that finals series has to be up there with the top ten most dominant finals performances ever. Toney's stats don't even come close to matching what West did against the Celtics, it isn't even comparable. Hell there are other series where people played better than Toney did and they were on the losing team in that finals series. West was just flat out dominant. Toney wasn't. If you know so much about both series then you should be able to figure out the difference.
So????

Why are you talking about West?? I'm not comparing Toney's Finals to West's.

There was NO stand out player on the Lakers. They won the series in large part because they were more talented. They had one of the greatest pure scorers of all time coming off the bench!! The best player in a series isn't always on the best team. It's just a fact. Voters are SCARED to vote for anyone on the losing team.
 
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