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Tinsley went to Iowa State, not Iowa

And in case you were wondering ISU is in the same conference as Texas. Tinsley put up good numbers in his two years there, and led them to very high seeds in the NCAA tourney twice, a 2 seed and a 1 seed I believe. And to call his success last season moderate is sort of odd, because he was one of the top 3 rookie pointguards easily. He was inconsistent at times, but he also had a few huge games, and his overall numbers were great for a rookie pointguard.
 

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I watch three Oak Hill games over the course of the last two years and I have Carmelo in all three. This kid is going to be special. No, his quickness isn't as good as James White or Evan Burns but the kid actually has bulk on his frame. He actually can play in the lane and gets some rebounds. I agree that his defense needs some work but their are a lot more lazy players out their. He doesn't have the elite athleticism of James White and Gerald Wallace but he actually has basketball skills, a developing outside shot that is better than both, solid and improving ball handling skills. He also is a good athlete (I watched him deliever a nasty dunk on Mario Boggan in the Oak Hill/Hargave scrimmage last summer). At 6'6.5" he will be slighty undersized at the SF spot but if people believe that Caron Butler at 6'5" can play the SF spot, then Anthony can too. If Anthony shows the improvement he should over the summer before his senior year in college, he will be a top 5 pick.

TJ Ford is not a first round pick, yet. Forget what he does in college. He's 5'11" 160 and is a poor outside shooter. I don't care how will he understands the game. Ed Cota had more bulk on him, 3 more years in college and was just as good of a passer and ball handler as Ford and we all know how well that has translated into the NBA. The NBA isn't in love with small guards and they certainly don't like ones who can't shot. If Ford can develop a jump shot, he should be a mid-first round pick in 2004 or 2005. To expect anything early or much higher than that is absurb. Besides the fact that their are plenty of points in college with better size and more potential than Ford.

A lot of your points are a little high and it looks like you had a copy of NBAdraft.net's list by your side when you made it. Jarvis Hayes and Luke Ridnour are way too high. What's the difference between Luke and Dan Dickau? Certainly not 25 picks. Kendrick Perkins also does not have perimeter skills. Where TF, do you guys get this stuff at? He has no game outside of 6 feet and he doesn't need it at the high school level. He's a solid 6'9" 250-260 with a nice jump hook and post moves and good hands. He reminds you of Shaq on the high school level but in no means is he the next Shaq. I don't think he goes top 5, for the simple fact that I don't believe he is that much better than Amare and he has less potential.
 

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You have a good arguement about Ford

But one thing he has is quickness. He has to be the quickest player in college right now. If he can work on shot and get it to the point where he at least is respectable in that department then he's a mid first rounder eventually, or higher.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I like your Ford comparison but I think Ford is a lot like Pepe Sanchez because of his size. As for Anthony, I don't think he will be special and he doesn't have Butler's D or athleticism or ferocity which are his best traits so those comparisons are moot, and forget about comparing him to PP, Anthony will not even be seen in the NBA's top 10 3 shooters. Anthony will be good but I still think Lucious Harris 12 points good, maybe 16 points, but he is not as good as Butler whose potential can is 18 or 19 ppg. as for Perkins I saw several games he played in his soph year but only 2 his junior year, and what I SAW was a developed perimeter game, he even hit a 3 or two a game and he did bang inside, but what impressed me the most was the way he blocked shots. He isn't athletic but he blocked shots at will, he blocked them like Elton Brand though, the smart positioning and recovering the ball style... but he is a short center because of his lack of speed and overall mass. But back to Ford, I think he should stay until he can hit a 3 with consistancy and play D. But I still think Evan Burns and Lenny Cooke are the 2 best swingmen from the 02 HS class with Anthony #3.
 

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Well I guess we have differences in opinions on some things. I wasn't at all comparing Anthony to Butler or Pierce. I was just saying that 6'6", with his bulk SF wouldn't be out of the question and SG wouldn't be out of the question with his quickness.

I'm not a huge fan of Caron Butler's game and I personally don't believe he will be an all-star. Does he have the potential to be one? Yeah but so about every kid in college. I think he is a major longshot. The comparsions to Pierce are a stretch, since he isn't as quick as Pierce and he doesn't have the all-around offensive game. I'm just not predicting Butler to be an all-star like everybody else.

Again, I never said Anthony would be an all-star either. I believe this draft overall is weaker than the last two although of course a couple of players with potential can changes these things. I think Anthony will be unique is the fact that he can come in and contribute from day one. James White and Gerald Wallace (the two most herald wings from the last two classes) were in way over their head during their freshman years. I think Anthony is a good enough shooter and post up player to score in more ways than just his athleticism. Besides, I wouldn't predict a player not to become a great shooter. With dedication and proper coaching anybody can be a deadly shooter.

Kendrick shot blocking is pretty impressive for a guy his size but athletically he doesn't compare Amare Stoudemire. I can't really see him being much higher than 5 (unless this draft is truly horrible). He is very effective around the goal but one wonders wheather he will "top out" on his potential early in his career.

TJ Ford is a legit prospect but I doubt he ever goes in the lottery. Now, of course GM's will make mistakes (see Mateen Cleaves 13th-Detroit Pistons) but I would be very shy about taking him in the lottery (espically at this point). Only two players under 6'5" were lottery picks in the last two years (Jay Williams and DaJuan Wagner). Wagner has better size, a stronger build, more potential and more athleticism. Williams is a far better shooter, has a better body, is more athletic and has proven he is a clutch player. Ford is way undersized (5'11 165) and he isn't going to get much bigger. Their are only a couple decent players in the league that size and although Ford is vastly different in types of style, I don't think he will be significantly better than any of them. Damon Stoudemire has been a huge disappointment although I am in no way comparing the two. It really isn't easy making it in the league at that size.

Anyway, if I have time maybe I'll post some rankings over the next week. I only read reports on foreign players and I still haven't seen a lot of high school prospects play and half the time, I see them on a very "off" day but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
 

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Dwayne Wade at 28, c'mon he's at least top 10
 

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Wade in the top 10 is highly debatable. At around 6'3", he is undersized at the 2-guard and he doesn't have the superstar potential or athleticism of DaJuan Wagner. He also has given no indication that he could every play the point position. I don't think he's in my top 20 either.
 

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I think Wade is a top-10 pick. He might not have Wagner's overall scoring ability, but he's just as athletic, if not more so. His reach is insane. At 6-4, he averaged over a block per game last season. He reminds me a lot of Michael Finley.
 

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Wade could go mid first, but not lottery

Freddy Jones went 14 and it was a huge surprise. The two things about him that teams didn't like were his size and his shot. I don't know about Wade's shot, but his size is not good for the NBA 2. He won't go top 10 because of this.
 

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Originally posted by SportsGuru5
I rate Troy Bell a little higher, and I see Marcus Hatten's situation as being similar to Juan Dixon's. Hatten, imo, doesn't possess any point guard skills, he's a terrific shooter who has a good feel for the offensive game. However, his height limits him greatly as far as NBA potential goes. Hatten should be a productive member of an NBA bench somewhere. Bell, on the other hand, can play point guard in the NBA, I believe. He is a skilled passer with quickness, we all know about his offensive scoring ability, and he can defend as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Bell becomes a very good NBA player.
Hatten dosn't possess any point guard skills??? He's played the PG position his entire life. He's a shoot-first PG granted, but he possesses all the skills of a PG. He's much like a Stephon Marbury, so are you saying that Marbury doesn't have PG skills?
 

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Originally posted by TheGoods
I like your Ford comparison but I think Ford is a lot like Pepe Sanchez

Hilarious....Pepe Sanchez was nothing but defense, and you have been attacking Ford for his lack of defense. Comparing these 2 players only makes you look more ridiculous. Get a clue before you start yapping
 

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Re: 2003 prospects list (post your list too)

6. Chris Duhon- not spectacular but good, Dre with a 3

38. Doug Wrenn- undersized 4, can even dominate Pac-10



First of all, Duhon does not have a 3-point shot. That's the problem with the kid...he can't consistently knock down the 3. And his game is not similiar to Andre Millers, so to remotely compare them is a waste of time for the people that read this garbage.

Second, obviously you haven't seen most of these guys play, or you would know a lot more that you do

If you ever watched Doug Wrenn play, then you would know he is a SF. In the NBA he could even play the 2, because he has a decent jumpshot and an incredible mid-range game. He's 6'6 with crazy athleticism. He was third in the PAC 10 in scoring, and was the star on a weak team. He's not an undersized 4, and I have no clue where you would get that from.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Sabby, think before you speak

Pepe Sanchez was a aweful defender, but he was a ball-hawk, and the Ford Sanchez comparison is that they are both very small (about 5-9 or 5-10) and are distributers first, they both commit lots of turnovers, and on D do not play their man and have the tendancy to lunge at passes and create open shots for the other team....Pepe Sanchez a good defender hahahahahahaha....Sanchez can't guard European PGs let alone a more physical American guard, he couldn't even handle small PGs in college, he averaged 1.5 steals because he lunged at ever pass, but don't confuse steal with good D, AI gets lots of steals but plays crappy D.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
As for Duhon and Wrenn

First of all Wrenn was the 5th leading scorer in the Pac-10 and I went to almost every Bruin and Trojan home game as well as watching the rest on TV. Secondly, I watched probably 15 Duke games and Duhon does the little things right and plays hard D like Dre, also Duhon's a pass first guard and great at creating through drawing defenders just like Dre, and Duhon has a sweet 3 he was a 38% 3 shooter and made a point of hitting one or two in the corner every game. As for Wrenn, Wrenn scored mostly in the post and I expect by mid-season Marcus Moore and Brandon Roy will be taking over the team...Wrenn scoring 19.5 points per game is like Mutombo averaging 13 or Chuky Atkins averaging 12, when you are on a team that has trouble scoring you will find yourself with opportunities. Wrenn is an undersized 4 because he can't hit a 3 and is not quick or fast, although he is surprizingly athletic for a guy who runs the court slower than some centers.
 

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Re: Sabby, think before you speak

Originally posted by TheGoods
Pepe Sanchez was a aweful defender, but he was a ball-hawk, and the Ford Sanchez comparison is that they are both very small (about 5-9 or 5-10) and are distributers first, they both commit lots of turnovers, and on D do not play their man and have the tendancy to lunge at passes and create open shots for the other team....Pepe Sanchez a good defender hahahahahahaha....Sanchez can't guard European PGs let alone a more physical American guard, he couldn't even handle small PGs in college, he averaged 1.5 steals because he lunged at ever pass, but don't confuse steal with good D, AI gets lots of steals but plays crappy D.
You never cease to make yourself look dumber and dumber. You're telling me to think before I speak? How about you know what you're talking about before you TRY to spit facts.

*Pepe Sanchez is 6'4...I'm still laughing at the fact that you quoted him as being 5'9 or 5'10.

*Pepe Sanchez averaged 3.4 steals a game in the Temple zone...did you even know that he played at Temple? He didn't have to play D on one man, so again your point is invalid.

*Pepe Sanchez didn't commit too many turnovers, and was known as a smart player (that was the only reason he was drafted)

The Goods...whatever you're smoking, let me know, because it would be nice to have a thought process that distorted every once a while.

Do Not, I repeat, Do Not keep rambling about something you obviously have no clue about. You have proven to me, and probably many others, that basketball is not your sport.
 

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Re: As for Duhon and Wrenn

Originally posted by TheGoods
First of all Wrenn was the 5th leading scorer in the Pac-10 and I went to almost every Bruin and Trojan home game as well as watching the rest on TV. Secondly, I watched probably 15 Duke games and Duhon does the little things right and plays hard D like Dre, also Duhon's a pass first guard and great at creating through drawing defenders just like Dre, and Duhon has a sweet 3 he was a 38% 3 shooter and made a point of hitting one or two in the corner every game. As for Wrenn, Wrenn scored mostly in the post and I expect by mid-season Marcus Moore and Brandon Roy will be taking over the team...Wrenn scoring 19.5 points per game is like Mutombo averaging 13 or Chuky Atkins averaging 12, when you are on a team that has trouble scoring you will find yourself with opportunities. Wrenn is an undersized 4 because he can't hit a 3 and is not quick or fast, although he is surprizingly athletic for a guy who runs the court slower than some centers.
Once again...You are clueless

Were you actually watching the games when you attended, or are you one of those people that is constantly on your cell phone?

*Check the facts once again, and you will realize that Wrenn was 3rd in the PAC 10 in scoring, finishing behind Jacobson and Gardner.

*Watching every game can't really help if you have no clue about the game of basketball.

*Wrenn did not score most of his points in the post, and for you to say that is completely insane. He's a slasher and get's most of his shots off the dribble or off the screen. You are absolutely ridiculous!

*Wrenn is quick, fast, and can hit the occasional 3. He shot close
to 30% from behind the arc last year. That isn't great, but better than you give him credit for.

*Apparently you were asleep when UCLA and USC played Washington at home...or you would have seen that Wrenn is fast and quick, especially for his size. He beats his man off the dribble constantly, and has the hops to finish.

* And if you want to start throwing statistics out there...Duhon shot 34% from behind the arc, not the 38% that you quoted....once again...YOUR BAD

*Lastly, Duhon is much quicker and faster than Dre, but Dre has the ability to post up other PG's and get to the hole with more consistency. Duhon will never be seen posting up. You're really stretching with these comparisons, so I suggest you just give it up

Go ahead and reply with another weak, opinionated, fact-distorted post, and watch me eat you alive. You have no basis in your arguments, so next time you make a post, come correct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
are you impying that you are Fat ******* in Austin Powers III?

I don't understand you...Wrenn is not that athletic and wasn't a slashy player, also for your info Clancy averaged more than Wrenn also I beleive, and Freddie Jones may have also but I think he only average 18.5(?). Also stop being insulting or I will disect your posts and be quite vicious....Duhon is very similar to Dre and it is not a stretch, post game or not their overall play is similar. And drop it with Wrenn you are wrong and need to stop dwelling like a 5 year old. You are getting way off-topic for this forum and I suggest that you move elsewhere to argue with yourself. And TJ Ford IS similar to Sanchez like it or not.
 

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Re: are you impying that you are Fat ******* in Austin Powers III?

Originally posted by TheGoods
I don't understand you...Wrenn is not that athletic and wasn't a slashy player, also for your info Clancy averaged more than Wrenn also I beleive, and Freddie Jones may have also but I think he only average 18.5(?). Also stop being insulting or I will disect your posts and be quite vicious....Duhon is very similar to Dre and it is not a stretch, post game or not their overall play is similar. And drop it with Wrenn you are wrong and need to stop dwelling like a 5 year old. You are getting way off-topic for this forum and I suggest that you move elsewhere to argue with yourself. And TJ Ford IS similar to Sanchez like it or not.
It would be nice for you to admit when you're wrong. All the statements you made are based on your shallow opinion, and not on facts. On the other hand, my statements are based on facts and statictics.

I do believe that it is you that is dwelling on this post. I simply corrected you and made you aware of your mishaps. If you would like to know where to get the facts and statistics, try espn.com. The average basketball fan would probably know that, but I bet you didn't, seeing that you have no clue about basketball.

If you would like to try to "disect my posts", go right ahead young'n. There is nothing to disect, because my arguments are based on facts rather than opinions.

I guess you're right because you say you're right, and I'm wrong because you say I'm wrong. That is a ridiculous way of thinking made by a ridiculous little boy. Your posts are just garbage, so save yourself the embarrassment.
 

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I'm with ya sabby

TheGoods doesn't know what he's talking about. He makes up stats, or at least inflates them.
 
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