[DistrictBaller]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Hynes is ridiculously awful. It's positively low-major in every way.

Iona's success is all Cluess built on transfers and JUCOs primarily. They have very little to sustain success if he leaves. I understand Siena, they have a lot of intangibles that will help them be successful long-term. Iona is not comparable IMO.

 

[ace93]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Hynes is ridiculously awful. It's positively low-major in every way.

Iona's success is all Cluess built on transfers and JUCOs primarily. They have very little to sustain success if he leaves. I understand Siena, they have a lot of intangibles that will help them be successful long-term. Iona is not comparable IMO.

I am not advocating for Iona, I am not one to defend them much and I agree their facility is terrible, but they are not all Cluess. They have 1 more NCAA appearances since 2000 than Siena. Give Siena one more if you go back one more year, but then go back one more than that and Iona has one more.

Iona: 1979, 1980, 1984, 1985, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2006, 2012, 2013

Siena: 1989, 1999, 2002, 2008, 2009, 2010

 

[LastMinuteman]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Towson plays football. I do not think they would want to let go of that. And I don't see Yeager and the CAA allowing them to keep their football there but move everything else to the A10.

The CAA Football Conference is a separate legal entity from the "full" CAA conference, so I'm fairly confident that it's possible to withdraw from the CAA without withdrawing from CAA Football. Most CAA Football members are NOT full members of the CAA, so they're not going to vote teams out for not being full CAA members.

Towson and Stony Brook are two programs that I wanted the the A10 to wait and watch before making a move. They're both on upward trajectories and have new/renovated arenas coming next season. It's definitely too soon to make commitments to them, but I didn't think any other candidate was such a slam dunk success of an addition that the A10 needed to act immediately. What's wrong with the Atlantic 10 having, worst case scenario, 10 members for a couple seasons? We haven't even dropped below 12 yet, and are already back to 13, with 14 probably on the way. If we'd dropped below 10, then absolutely GMU and/or Davidson needed to be added ASAP as the best prospects as of this exact second, but we weren't in that situation. Oh well, maybe they'll end up being the best longterm additions anyway.

 

[DistrictBaller]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Good points. I'm still not thrilled with Iona, but I can understand why others might be. From basketball standpoint they're better than Charleston so there's that.

That facility though *shudder*. It really is awful. Siena and Iona do have a bit of a rivalry in the MAAC though so there is that going for the A-10 if both are added. Quality regional rivalries are what make conference races exciting. With VCU-UR, Mason-GW, and the Big 5 intercity rivalry with La Salle and St. Joe's, we have some decent ones.

 

[MTS]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Iona's never won a postgame outside of the CIT. Siena has NCAA wins in 1989 (Stanford) 2002 (Play in round) 2008 (Vanderbilt) and 2009 (Ohio State) Plus 9 NIT wins since 1988 including the 1994 NIT Final Four. Iona really can't hold a candle to Siena overall.

IMHO.. After Mason and Davidson - Siena and Charleston would be the best add. I think Fairfield is more appealing than Iona but Iona has much more success.

 

[A10BBall]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Iona's basketball facility is terrible or they'd probably already be in the A-10.

This... ^^^^^

 

[ace93]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Good points. I'm still not thrilled with Iona, but I can understand why others might be. From basketball standpoint they're better than Charleston so there's that.

That facility though *shudder*. It really is awful. Siena and Iona do have a bit of a rivalry in the MAAC though so there is that going for the A-10 if both are added. Quality regional rivalries are what make conference races exciting. With VCU-UR, Mason-GW, and the Big 5 intercity rivalry with La Salle and St. Joe's, we have some decent ones.

Far for me to be one to defend Iona, so I am mostly playing devil's advocate, but Iona would also have a very good rivalry with Fordham as our campuses are only 10 miles apart.

Their facility would be the worst in the A10 though. I think it is easier to recruit to the MAAC with that facility and they would struggle to do so in the A10.

 

[ace93]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Towson and Stony Brook are two programs that I wanted the the A10 to wait and watch before making a move. They're both on upward trajectories and have new/renovated arenas coming next season. It's definitely too soon to make commitments to them, but I didn't think any other candidate was such a slam dunk success of an addition that the A10 needed to act immediately. What's wrong with the Atlantic 10 having, worst case scenario, 10 members for a couple seasons? We haven't even dropped below 12 yet, and are already back to 13, with 14 probably on the way. If we'd dropped below 10, then absolutely GMU and/or Davidson needed to be added ASAP as the best prospects as of this exact second, but we weren't in that situation. Oh well, maybe they'll end up being the best longterm additions anyway.

Is it possible that there is something in our TV contract that requires a certain number of schools? Also, would GMU and Davidson be as quick to jump to the A10 if we were down to 10? Even if they were, I think they'd see that they had more negotiating power than they do now.

 

[Free Quebec]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Davidson has the best "buzz" quotient of any potential add, so i like the addition from that standpoint.

My only question about Davidson is that I believe their basketball spending would rank near the bottom of the league (I think bottom 2 or 3). I wonder if they are committing to increasing their budget upon joining the league. That is the kind of thing that could determine post-McKillop whether they continue to succeed.

 

[EpicFailGuy]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I'm pretty biased, but I don't think travel is all that much of a concern. It's about getting the best basketball programs the A-10 can get for their flagship sport.

 

[antboy]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Very doubtful. What conference would accomodate all their other sports out of the good of their heart while not benefitting from their marquee sport? If such a scenario were likely, more schools would be doing it and we'd have basketball only conferences, footbball only conferences and then different regional conferences for the rest of the sports.

We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.

 

[A10BBall]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.

$300,000 is not even remotely correct

 

[MTS]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Has Davidson confirmed anything yet? It's odd that only Jeff Goodman reported on this and nobody else.

 

[JBiggs]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Has Davidson confirmed anything yet? It's odd that only Jeff Goodman reported on this and nobody else.

I agree that it's odd he's the only one. If Brett McMurphy throws it out there, then I think it may have more legs.

 

[Tintin049]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Does anyone know WTF this guy is talking about?

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 12h
Of all the conference realignment we've seen, can't imagine one that runs more counter to nature of the institution than Davidson to A10.

From an academic point of view they are joining Fordham, GW, Richmond at the high level. Impressive company without question.

There are 1200 students at Davidson. Being in the southern conference, they take vans everywhere because they can get everywhere in the sc on a van.
I can't figure out how they're going to afford getting their volleyball and baseball teams to Rhody and Bonnie.

I'm thinking this is what Decourcy means and I agree with him on that level. This really is akin to Boise joining the big east.

 

[Tintin049]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Davidson has the best "buzz" quotient of any potential add, so i like the addition from that standpoint.

My only question about Davidson is that I believe their basketball spending would rank near the bottom of the league (I think bottom 2 or 3). I wonder if they are committing to increasing their budget upon joining the league. That is the kind of thing that could determine post-McKillop whether they continue to succeed.

Davidson's a good program, but they dance every year because they play in a crappy conference, not because they are getting at larges.
I rag on a my Davidson friends every year about playing a three game basketball season.

 

[A10BBall]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

There are 1200 students at Davidson. Being in the southern conference, they take vans everywhere because they can get everywhere in the sc on a van.
I can't figure out how they're going to afford getting their volleyball and baseball teams to Rhody and Bonnie.

I'm thinking this is what Decourcy means and I agree with him on that level. This really is akin to Boise joining the big east.

Probably because they have a half a billion endowment that they can resource in addition to $300k per year checks that they can flip around and cover expenses.. Not to mention the digital rights agreement that will finally be finalized with Comcast/NBC this summer, as they (Comcast/NBC) are finalizing the mergers of their own merger (via synergies, classic M&A), which will provide more cash per school... Student athletes make up a significant portion of their student body (one of the highest ratios in the country).. So they will be spending the money on their student body

Additional travel expenses for the teams that do travel will be around $100k-$140k per year..

Heck if Davidson can't afford to travel then how does about half of the universities in the A-10 afford to travel with smaller endowments.

 

[ace93]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

We already have teams joining conferences for football only and soccer only, to name a couple. The non-marquee sports often are pretty jumbled up conference-wise. But you're probably right that it's not worth it to find a place to park the other sports if nothing is available regionally.

I honestly think the estimates of travel costs is way low. But i don't have actual figures, just the idea that a lot of support staff travel with teams and when you add it all up, it's going to be more than $300,000 extra. Add in the effects this has on study time due to time spent traveling, and Davidson may have difficulties with their other sports that are mostly non-scholarship (i.e. they have other priorities).

I also don't think the conference cares too much about including the non-revenue sports, since it's clearly Davidson's basketball team they'd want included. The other sports, I bet they'd be just fine with leaving out (save travel money themselves, it doesn't really subtract much to the conference competition wise). If Davidson had powerhouse programs in other sports, maybe it'd be different.

I think that you are looking at this from the opposite end. I do not know which football programs you are referring to (though I know there are some) and I have no idea what soccer program you are referring to, but what you need to look at is whether the conference in which they have a majority of their sports offers the sport they have elsewhere.

In the scenario you suggest for Davidson, it is not the A10 would care if they bring their non-revenue sports, it is the SoCon that would not allow them to have all their non-revenue sports with them and the one marquee nationally known sport to go to the A10. There would have to be something tangible in it for the SoCon and I am not sure what that would be, perhaps money.

 

[antboy]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

$300,000 is not even remotely correct

I'm trying to find some information on what travel costs really are, it's often not reported separately in the articles, but I'm sure there's a database somewhere. But here's an older article from the nytimes on the issue:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/sports/ncaafootball/03colleges.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

UNCW faces a similar issue in CAA (southernmost member), and they reported a "game travel" budget of $1.2 million: http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20130228/ARTICLES/130229623

I don't think 300,000 is that unreasonable across an entire athletic budget, if non-revenue teams are taking flights instead of close bus rides. The longer flights are not cheap anymore, and many of these teams have lots of players and support personnel to transport, along with extra baggage costs for equipment and travel to and from airports.

Do you have other sources of info?

 

[antboy]

Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I think that you are looking at this from the opposite end. I do not know which football programs you are referring to (though I know there are some) and I have no idea what soccer program you are referring to, but what you need to look at is whether the conference in which they have a majority of their sports offers the sport they have elsewhere.

In the scenario you suggest for Davidson, it is not the A10 would care if they bring their non-revenue sports, it is the SoCon that would not allow them to have all their non-revenue sports with them and the one marquee nationally known sport to go to the A10. There would have to be something tangible in it for the SoCon and I am not sure what that would be, perhaps money.

That's what I meant by "find a place to park the other sports". It sounded like from your previous post that you were suggesting the A10 wouldn't let Davidson bring only basketball, but I think I misread your post.

So that's the issue, how will they afford the increased costs for all these other sports? Tapping the endowment significantly isn't a long term solution that they'll be happy about, and smaller student populations make student fees less of an option. If the A10 gets a good t.v. deal despite the defections, then that would help tremendously.