Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

101 - 120 of 454 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
876 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

If Davidson thinks they can make the investments, why should anyone else care? We've had a school from Charlotte for the last decade.

Are their non-revenue sports awful? There are some pretty awful non revenue programs in the A10 right now. The St Bona Women's lax team that played down here yesterday is a good example.

From a basketball standpoint, adding Davidson is a no brainer. From an institutional perspective, it is also a no brainer.

Get it done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,504 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I am skeptical of the Davidson rumor. Maybe they are being considered, but getting in before Siena? I have a hard time believing that. Based on what I know so far, Davidson does not seem like a great fit. We'll see. I am not going to react much without harder evidence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,237 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

If Davidson thinks they can make the investments, why should anyone else care? We've had a school from Charlotte for the last decade.

Are their non-revenue sports awful? There are some pretty awful non revenue programs in the A10 right now. The St Bona Women's lax team that played down here yesterday is a good example.

From a basketball standpoint, adding Davidson is a no brainer. From an institutional perspective, it is also a no brainer.

Get it done.
I think it would be in the best interest of the A10 to make sure Davidson truly can make the investments. If they overextend themselves and then have to withdraw, it would not be ideal for the A10. That is why I think others should care.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,237 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

That's what I meant by "find a place to park the other sports". It sounded like from your previous post that you were suggesting the A10 wouldn't let Davidson bring only basketball, but I think I misread your post.

So that's the issue, how will they afford the increased costs for all these other sports? Tapping the endowment significantly isn't a long term solution that they'll be happy about, and smaller student populations make student fees less of an option. If the A10 gets a good t.v. deal despite the defections, then that would help tremendously.
Yeah, that is not what I was saying. You orginally asked in parentheses if they could possibly come over in just basketball and I said it would be very doubtful b/c nobody would likely be willing to accomodate all their other sports while not having their marquee sport.

BTW, which is the soccer program that is in a different conference than their predominant conference?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,392 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I'm pretty sure that it is not possible to bring "only" basketball under NCAA rules. Football is the only sport in which a school can play in a league different from its other sports, with one exception. That exception is, as in the case of UMass lacrosse, when the league a school is in for other sports does not sponsor that particular sport.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,266 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

If you wanted to strengthen the league on the court an appeal to the media, you look westward and try to add Wichita State, Bradley maybe a Valpo. That the league isn't headed there means there is no assurance that SLU and probably Dayton are staying. If the league is truly going to be east coast centric, then as WH said, Siena should be the first school added. It has the arena, fan base and natural rivalries with the Bonnies, Fordham and even UMASS. Davidson has a great academic reputation and has certainly enjoyed success within its conference, but it is a small school with a small alumni base. Extending an invitation to them makes sense to me only if the conference is bringing in Charleston as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

BTW, which is the soccer program that is in a different conference than their predominant conference?
CUSA soccer. It includes Kentucky and South Carolina. Though that's because the SEC doesn't have men's soccer.

I think there are probably other sports where a team here or there is in a different conference. But maybe not when both conferences housing teams have a given sport.

I think you and other folks are right that it would be difficult, maybe not allowed, to have basketball only. But if it's possible, that'd be one way for a place like Davidson to handle the travel costs and limit the travel time for so many non-scholarship athletes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,880 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

This wasn't overly clear, but I received a message from an A10 administrator (not from SBU) telling me to "watch out for Charleston now." We'll see if there's any validity to that.

Edit: He also told me to watch for Richmond and the Big East. While UD and SLU are the front runners, a few schools really want UR added. That, though, is nothing new here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Stop all of this.. Davidson is going to have 8 travel teams in the A-10 (out of all genders). Basketball obviously isn't the concern they fly anyways. So there are 6 teams that travel and joining the A-10 will require them have maybe 3-4 additional flights per team. They only play against each once and half of their games are home games. Soccer didn't play everyone in the conference, they will resume that this year at 13.

Mens and Womens Soccer
Mens and Womens Basketball
Women's Lacrosse
Women's Field Hockey
Women's Lacrosse
Men's Baseball

So they have 18 to 24 additional flights they need to pay for..

And the sports below do not travel to each campus to play. They meet one time at the end of the season for the championship. Just like other conferences, to greatly reduce travel expenses.
XC
Track and Field
Swimming and Diving
Tennis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,237 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I'm pretty sure that it is not possible to bring "only" basketball under NCAA rules. Football is the only sport in which a school can play in a league different from its other sports, with one exception. That exception is, as in the case of UMass lacrosse, when the league a school is in for other sports does not sponsor that particular sport.
I used to believe that, but have been told that it is not the case and I did not find anything in the NCAA rulebook about it either. I do not know any football programs that do what you describe, not when their main conference also offers football at the same level. There are mainly 3 levels of football, FBS, FCS and non-scholarship FCS. There are some in-betweens in FCS, but I do not know if the number of scholarships would be enough for a conference to let a team out.

I would be very interested in seeing the rule laid out somewhere, but when I searched for it b/c I truly believed it existed, I was unable to find it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,237 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

CUSA soccer. It includes Kentucky and South Carolina. Though that's because the SEC doesn't have men's soccer.

I think there are probably other sports where a team here or there is in a different conference. But maybe not when both conferences housing teams have a given sport.
Exactly. If your conference does not offer your sport you find somewhere to park it, but I do not know of any cases where a school had a sport in a different conference when their conference sponsored the sport at the same level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
821 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I'm unsure what to think about Davidson joining the A10. In the SoCon, they go to the NCAA tournament almost every year. We play them every year and they often have trouble dealing with our athleticism even when our team isn't all that talented. I think they'd find the A10 a very tough row to hoe. They recruit much like an Ivy league school and I'm not sure they'll change their recruiting if they join the A10.

Davidson has shown time and time again in the NCAA tournament that they can assemble teams that can compete with just about anyone, but I'm not sure they can compete with A10 programs for 16+ games per year.

Anyway, best of luck of both Davidson and the A10 in the future. Davidson is probably one of the best possible additions out there and will firm up and already strong southern division with VCU, GMU, and Richmond.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Adding Siena would partially placate me. I think they bring more to the table than Davidson (larger arena, fanbase, big metro arean with no pro teams, success under several coaches, etc...).

The current direction of the league may be good for UR as you are one of the southern most members. it is however in my opinion not good for the northern most members such as URI, UMass, SBU, and FU. It probably will mean more charter flights for the men's basketball teams and very long trips for all the other athletic teams.
You seem to to touch on every factor except perhaps the most important one. Winning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Stop all of this.. Davidson is going to have 8 travel teams in the A-10 (out of all genders). Basketball obviously isn't the concern they fly anyways. So there are 6 teams that travel and joining the A-10 will require them have maybe 3-4 additional flights per team. They only play against each once and half of their games are home games. Soccer didn't play everyone in the conference, they will resume that this year at 13.

Mens and Womens Soccer
Mens and Womens Basketball
Women's Lacrosse
Women's Field Hockey
Women's Lacrosse
Men's Baseball

So they have 18 to 24 additional flights they need to pay for..

And the sports below do not travel to each campus to play. They meet one time at the end of the season for the championship. Just like other conferences, to greatly reduce travel expenses.
XC
Track and Field
Swimming and Diving
Tennis
I'll let it drop after this post, but I think you're being too conservative in your estimates. Basketball actually doesn't fly to many of their conference games currently, so that would be additional and longer, more expensive flights. Each of those 4 sports at the end with large numbers of athletes as well as the other 8 teams bused to their championships, may or may not in the future depending on where they're held. And if they choose to bus to more of these events, that means the athletes are spending a lot more time on the road. There will be additional baggage costs along with some small airports, additional bus rides to remote campuses, and more hotel stays if there are logistical issues or weather delays, so the cost nowadays is going to be much higher than $150 per flight. I'm not sure how UNCW can end up with a game travel budget of $1.2 million last year given they have the same sports as Davidson and a similar, if not easier, travel map to deal with in the CAA if your estimates are accurate.

We'll see. As I said, I'll just be interested to see how that works for them if they do join the A10.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,625 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

You seem to to touch on every factor except perhaps the most important one. Winning.
In adding new members, a league should look at the long term and not the short term. A league should also evaluate schools over several coaches' tenure so that it is sure that the program is stronger than an individual coach. While Siena may have made a bad hire recently and paid for in the last few seasons, its history is impressive. I would say Siena's 13-11 postseason record (NCAA and NIT) in the last 25 seasons highlights its winning tradition. The Saints have NCAA wins over Stanford-1989, Vanderbilt-2008, and Ohio State-2009. It has NIT wins over South Carolina-1990, UMass-1990 & 2000, Kansas State-1994, Ga Tech-1994, Tulane-1994, Bradley-1994, and Villanova-2003. The record of success at Siena was such that four recent coaches got poached by BCS league schools.



Siena College Saints
School: Private-Catholic
Campus: Loudonville, NY (just outside Albany)
Distance to Barclays Arena-Brooklyn 160 miles
Enrollment: 3,390 Undergraduates
Market: Albany MSA-870,716 (4th largest urban area in New York State and the 58th nationally)
Home: 14,500 seat Times Union Center in downtown Albany (all home games off campus)
2012-13 Attendance: averaged 6,361 for 14 games (for an 8-24 team)
(averaged 7,853 in 2009-10 season when team went 27-7 and was in NCAA)
Division 1: started play in 1976
NCAA Appearances: 6 - 1989, 1999, 2002, 2008, 2009 and 2010
NCAA Record: 4-6
Notable NCAA Wins: Stanford-1989, Vanderbilt-2008, Ohio State-2009
NIT Appearances: 5 - 1988, 1991, 1994, 2000, and 2003
NIT Record: 9-5
Notable NIT Wins: South Carolina-1990, UMass-1990 & 2000, Kansas State-1994, Ga Tech-1994, Tulane-1994, Bradley-1994, Villanova-2003
Coaches that moved on: Mike Deane-Marquette, Paul Hewitt-Ga Tech, Louis Orr-Seton Hall, Fran McCaffrey-Iowa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,014 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Exactly. If your conference does not offer your sport you find somewhere to park it, but I do not know of any cases where a school had a sport in a different conference when their conference sponsored the sport at the same level.
Providence - Women's Volleyball - America East Conference (Big East *DOES* sponsor Women's Volleyball)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,237 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

Providence - Women's Volleyball - America East Conference (Big East *DOES* sponsor Women's Volleyball)
Thanks. Interesting that they did not join the Big East when they went from independent to a conference in 2010. I wonder if the Big East did not want them, Providence did not want to commit to travel or if the AE has a lower scholarship max. Will be interseting to see what they do in the new Big East. Apparently they are a fairly weak team, so I wonder if the former Big East did not want them when they decided to put their independence behind. I should edit my previous comment and add that I do not know of a case where a conference allows a good program to play elsewhere when they also sponsor the sport at the same level.

I also appreciate your use of asterisks and capital letters to highlight the obvious point. ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
17,902 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I know the Northern members don't like this, but let's not act like travel is a relevant issue. What should be the major consideration is can these teams win games and go to the NCAA tournament from our league. First and foremost, the Atlantic 10 is a basketball conference. So that should be the ONLY concern. Davidson is a better basketball team than Siena right now...so I take them.

I guarantee you that SLU will travel more than anybody, and travel is not an issue here. I also realize that SLU is more or less assumed to be gone. Until that happens, Saint Louis is just as much a member of the A-10 as any other school.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,014 Posts
Re: A10 close to adding Davidson (for 2014)

I also appreciate your use of asterisks and capital letters to highlight the obvious point. ;)
I wanted to make sure everyone knew what I was referring to, because eventually they would forget the obvious point after 1 or two quotes down the line. :) It's only obvious to those reading the entire conversation, aka, a small percentage. :)

Trying to track down the conference sponsorship by school off ncaa.org, but I can't seem to hit on it yet. But, you can choose sport/division at this URL and then sort by conference to see by sport what teams are playing where.
 
101 - 120 of 454 Posts
Top