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Yeah, I knew that and had already made that connection. Just wondered if there were any whispers coming out of the Richmond camp. As you almost certainly know, Davis had a very successful run at Randolph-Macon, FWIW.
 

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Yeah, I knew that and had already made that connection. Just wondered if there were any whispers coming out of the Richmond camp. As you almost certainly know, Davis had a very successful run at Randolph-Macon, FWIW.
Well, I spoke to my inside source who is a donor at UR. In the past he has told me in advance of news releases that Nelson Ododa and Khwan Fore were leaving the program as grad transfers. He says that Hardt was leaning toward Nathan Davis but the players and a big donor want another year to turn it around. Add to the mix that they would have to eat $3.6 million if they fired Mooney. I mean this is college sports and that is some serious bank so it looks like it is another year for the Moonman.
 

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Like it or not, Mooney is 26 games over .500 in the last 12 conference seasons, and if you include his first 2 seasons at UR he's still 14 games over .500. 2 NCAA appearances including a sweet 16. That kind of resume doesn't get you fired in the A10. I'm not sure what UR fans are looking for. They had 2 NCAA appearances in the 14 years before he got there. Dick Tarrant isn't walking back through that door, and college BB isn't revisiting the 1980s landscape again. Ever. Get used to it.
 

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Like it or not, Mooney is 26 games over .500 in the last 12 conference seasons, and if you include his first 2 seasons at UR he's still 14 games over .500. 2 NCAA appearances including a sweet 16. That kind of resume doesn't get you fired in the A10. I'm not sure what UR fans are looking for. They had 2 NCAA appearances in the 14 years before he got there. Dick Tarrant isn't walking back through that door, and college BB isn't revisiting the 1980s landscape again. Ever. Get used to it.
You won't like it when the Dean goes next week, then.
 

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You won't like it when the Dean goes next week, then.
It would be more understandable than Mooney. In the same 14 years, Martelli is 8 games under .500 in conference regular season (I should have mentioned the Mooney stats were conference regular season as well).

But you act like Phil has been living off that 54-10 stretch with 3 NCAAT the 4 years prior to that, but he has 3 NCAAT in the last 12 seasons and has only been below .500 in 3 of the last 8 years. So really, nothing on Phil's resume screams "Fire me" either.

We're in coaching purgatory here. You either get an up-and-comer coach and the growing pains that go with it. Or you get a major conference washout who wants to extend his career. Or you stick with what you have.

I'm not saying calls to fire Phil or fire Mooney are necessarily wrong. I'm just saying there's a lack of perspective that goes on when people are passionate. IMO, especially in Mooney's case. And somewhat in Phil's case. In both scenarios you have programs across town tearing it up and one mired in mediocrity. It lends a sometimes irrational sense of urgency.

We'll see how long UB continues to be a force, but I can absolutely envision the same thing happening in WNY if the Bulls keep making NCAAT and the Bonnies don't.
 

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How often should an A10 fanbase realistically expect their men's basketball team to go to the NCAA tournament? My thought is at least every 4 to 5 years. Chris Mooney has done well enough record-wise, though it is arguable. That Sweet 16 run is ancient history by today's standards and expectations, and if you factor in that the other NCAA berth was the year before that, then the last 7 seasons look even more questionable. Back-to-back 20 loss seasons. Finishing bottom half too often.

Don't get me wrong, at Fordham, Chris Mooney would be in the Hall of Fame, but at Richmond, he should be doing a bit better than he is.
 

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It would be more understandable than Mooney. In the same 14 years, Martelli is 8 games under .500 in conference regular season (I should have mentioned the Mooney stats were conference regular season as well).

But you act like Phil has been living off that 54-10 stretch with 3 NCAAT the 4 years prior to that, but he has 3 NCAAT in the last 12 seasons and has only been below .500 in 3 of the last 8 years. So really, nothing on Phil's resume screams "Fire me" either.

We're in coaching purgatory here. You either get an up-and-comer coach and the growing pains that go with it. Or you get a major conference washout who wants to extend his career. Or you stick with what you have.

I'm not saying calls to fire Phil or fire Mooney are necessarily wrong. I'm just saying there's a lack of perspective that goes on when people are passionate. IMO, especially in Mooney's case. And somewhat in Phil's case. In both scenarios you have programs across town tearing it up and one mired in mediocrity. It lends a sometimes irrational sense of urgency.

We'll see how long UB continues to be a force, but I can absolutely envision the same thing happening in WNY if the Bulls keep making NCAAT and the Bonnies don't.
I understand your point and disagree that passion specifically, let alone anything generally, clouds an otherwise sound judgment/perspective regarding these two coaches in particular. They get paid more than just about any other coach in the conference, and they do not produce anywhere in accordance with that.

I do think one thing that's worth differentiating is that Saint Joseph's has shown itself to be a major player in this conference since joining nearly 40 years ago. Richmond has gone through a cavalcade of homes in that time, which I think is harder to compare to a less transient program (though easily applicable to their cross-town rivals).

When it comes to Phil specifically, I have his record at 77-93 in conference since Hagan Arena opened in 2009 (which has generally been my line of demarcation for various reasons). That record includes 13-2 against Fordham. So 64-91 against teams that have at some point been competitive at the top of the league at least once. 25 games underwater! Couple that with a total capitulation to villanova not just on the court but in the spirit of the supposed rivalry, and it just sours what's left. That just doesn't get it done. In that time, you have three twenty loss seasons, two near 20 loss seasons, two very good seasons, and middling output in the years that remain. Four winning seasons in 10 are pink slip worthy to me.

EDIT: to add, these numbers don't show the necrosis rampant throughout the program otherwise, from donors to ticket sales (both alum and students). This part can't be quantified currently, but I can promise you that Saint Joseph's basketball is dying. Richmond I can't speak to, as I don't think it was in the same position I felt SJU to be in. But they're pretty equal these days.

How often should an A10 fanbase realistically expect their men's basketball team to go to the NCAA tournament? My thought is at least every 4 to 5 years. Chris Mooney has done well enough record-wise, though it is arguable. That Sweet 16 run is ancient history by today's standards and expectations, and if you factor in that the other NCAA berth was the year before that, then the last 7 seasons look even more questionable. Back-to-back 20 loss seasons. Finishing bottom half too often.

Don't get me wrong, at Fordham, Chris Mooney would be in the Hall of Fame, but at Richmond, he should be doing a bit better than he is.
Tend to agree with ace here. Mooney needs to go. Simply does not produce enough for one of the ~3 highest paid coaches in conference. Dollars and cents. Yes, injuries and transfers. That's a shame. Pink slip.
 

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Tend to agree with ace here. Mooney needs to go. Simply does not produce enough for one of the ~3 highest paid coaches in conference. Dollars and cents. Yes, injuries and transfers. That's a shame. Pink slip.
They would have to buyout $3.6 million if they give him a pink slip.
 

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They would have to buyout $3.6 million if they give him a pink slip.
Which is their own dumb-ass fault. He deserves to go. Whether they want to pay that is another question. Richmond has the money or can get it. I saw your poster re: booster, and I also don't see Mooney not on Richmond's sidelines next year.

If one donor who wants to change can pay for it, you can save a few hundred thousand on the HC salary and put the money toward buy games/charters, etc. More for your dollar than Chris Mooney.
 
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