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Discussion Starter #41
I've always been a fan of SJU and Martelli despite the fiasco that occurred in Olean back in 2004. I usually root for them when they aren't play SBU, but man, they haven't been able to string together consecutive solid seasons in a while it seems.

It'd be weird not seeing Martelli on the sidelines with SJU, but I have to imagine they could get a very good coach to come in and take over if it comes to that.

SJUHawk, any popular names amongst SJU fans for a future HC?
Jameer Nelson.

And it's not far fetched from what the grapevine has said...
 

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I'm confident that if the shoe was on the other foot, the UD fans would not get caught up in "dignity." You included, JAF.
It’s been a a long time since Don Donoher was fired at UD. Very similar to Phil. Great character and still a supporter of the University. I wasn’t happy with the way his firing was handled. There really hasn’t been anything close at UD since. You shouldn’t be so quick to jump to conclusions. People that spend half of their lives at one job deserve respect.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
It’s been a a long time since Don Donoher was fired at UD. Very similar to Phil. Great character and still a supporter of the University. I wasn’t happy with the way his firing was handled. There really hasn’t been anything close at UD since. You shouldn’t be so quick to jump to conclusions. People that spend half of their lives at one job deserve respect.
Today, in 2019, I'm positive that Flyer Faithful wouldn't afford a single second to whatever dignity means here.

What do you think is most dignified? Letting the coach leave when they want? That's just so not based in the reality of the real world, where people who get paid a lot less than a cool mil a year and work at the same place for decades get pink slipped by a bean counter on a whim.
 

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Today, in 2019, I'm positive that Flyer Faithful wouldn't afford a single second to whatever dignity means here.

What do you think is most dignified? Letting the coach leave when they want? That's just so not based in the reality of the real world, where people who get paid a lot less than a cool mil a year and work at the same place for decades get pink slipped by a bean counter on a whim.
You said he shouldn’t have any role at St. Joe’s not me. That’s where we disagree. Give him a soft landing. That doesn’t mean that I think that a change isn’t needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
You said he shouldn’t have any role at St. Joe’s not me. That’s where we disagree. Give him a soft landing. That doesn’t mean that I think that a change isn’t needed.
People who make millions don't need a soft landing. I think you're greatly underestimating the lack of dignity there is in even offering such a position.
 

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Gotta agree with 13 a little here. SJU administration telling Phil, hey so how about you take this associate director of bullshit, i.e. play figurehead for a few years, and we're going to transition to a new coach - that is more insulting than just saying Phil, look we love you but we're slipping, and it's time to make a change. Thank you for everything you've done for SJU you will always be a beloved guest on Hawk Hill.

That's more dignified than not saying to a professional's face what you think. He's a pro. Give him a professional assessment. It's not good enough anymore and the U expects more.
 

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Gotta agree with 13 a little here. SJU administration telling Phil, hey so how about you take this associate director of bullshit, i.e. play figurehead for a few years, and we're going to transition to a new coach - that is more insulting than just saying Phil, look we love you but we're slipping, and it's time to make a change. Thank you for everything you've done for SJU you will always be a beloved guest on Hawk Hill.

That's more dignified than not saying to a professional's face what you think. He's a pro. Give him a professional assessment. It's not good enough anymore and the U expects more.
I’m going to go back to my original post where I said Phil should step down especially if he lost his team as 13 has posted. Something tells me that he won’t retire on his own. They always think that they can turn it around with one more recruiting class. I really don’t have a dog in the hunt if SJU wants to sever all formal ties with Phil.
 

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The St Joe/Bona's game was televised by Stadium Network, the color guy was none other than LaSalle's Dr G. He did a terrific job, very insightful, a bit of humor....maybe Phil could be next.
 

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As a relative newcomer to the A10, I can only comment on what I've seen since 2012-2013. And that is that St. Joe's seemed to always have a competitive team and that Phil knew he could get to the tournament about every other year. It seemed there would be a Hawks team with a strong senior class that would carry them, but there would be good freshmen and sophs that would be the next strong senior class in a couple years. That's not a bad thing, but I can certainly see where fans would want more consistency than a tourney appearance every 2 or 3 years. I felt like Phil had a good thing going the last couple seasons following their championship team in 2016 before injuries derailed them in 2017 and 2018. But given what we're seeing now and the way 13 is describing the team, I would have to side with him that you have to make a change.

Actually, I've used Phil as an analogy of what my concerns were with the Rhoades hire. I didn't want to see a coach at VCU that couldn't maintain the level of success that has been built over the last 15+ years but that did just well enough to not get fired (i.e., a tourney appearance every 2 or 3 years). I'm not saying this is who Rhoades is or will become, just general concerns at the time of the hire. So I can understand the perspective of Hawks fans who are ready to move on over those who feel a sense of loyalty.
 

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If we are being realistic, JonBoy, an NCAA bid every two or three years would be outstanding for most A10 programs. In recent history, Dayton and VCU might be the only exceptions to that.
 

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If most of us are being realistic, JonBoy, an NCAA bid every two or three years would be outstanding for most A10 programs. In recent history, Dayton and VCU might be the only exceptions to that.
Yeah, expectations are pretty high at VCU. That article that comes out every year ranking the head coaching jobs had this to say:
The knock: “The expectations. They are insane. Also have to recruit with two ACC schools in the state and the Triangle ACC schools two hours away. There are a lot of players, but you are fighting big-time programs for a lot of the players.” – A-10 head coach
 

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If most of us are being realistic, JonBoy, an NCAA bid every two or three years would be outstanding for most A10 programs. In recent history, Dayton and VCU might be the only exceptions to that.
I agree and I wasn't trying to imply that that's a bad situation. I get the impression that SJU fans have higher expectations than that, which is why I mentioned it.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
Our expectations are not to lose 20 games in years where we don't make the tourney. I think newer A10 fans see 2014 and 2016 and say "what's wrong?" when they don't look at the 6 year gap between 2008 and 2014, twenty loss seasons in 2010, 2011, and 2017, a near 20 loss season in 2015, and meltdowns in 2012 and 2013,.

We have resources that will become available with the next coach as long as there is a real vision that is promoted. Phil always says how VCU has a goal every year of going to the final four but "that's just not the way it is here" and 1) why not? and 2) then what should our goal be?

It is time. It just is. I can separate Phil the man from Phil the coach. The question is whether Phil can separate SJU the employer and SJU the institution.

Further, Saint Joseph's basketball was around and successful for a lot longer than Phil has been there. I know that some, especially those newer to the league, think Phil turned a turd into something that was better than a turd, but they just don't know. And yes the landscape has changed but I assure that we have resources that do not want to give to this vision, which doesn't exist.
 

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Our expectations are not to lose 20 games in years where we don't make the tourney. I think newer A10 fans see 2014 and 2016 and say "what's wrong?" when they don't look at the 6 year gap between 2008 and 2014, twenty loss seasons in 2010, 2011, and 2017, a near 20 loss season in 2015, and meltdowns in 2012 and 2013,.

We have resources that will become available with the next coach as long as there is a real vision that is promoted. Phil always says how VCU has a goal every year of going to the final four but "that's just not the way it is here" and 1) why not? and 2) then what should our goal be?

It is time. It just is. I can separate Phil the man from Phil the coach. The question is whether Phil can separate SJU the employer and SJU the institution.

Further, Saint Joseph's basketball was around and successful for a lot longer than Phil has been there. I know that some, especially those newer to the league, think Phil turned a turd into something that was better than a turd, but they just don't know. And yes the landscape has changed but I assure that we have resources that do not want to give to this vision, which doesn't exist.
This is true. I didn't have a lot of knowledge of SJU basketball before VCU came to the A10. I had some, but not nearly as much as I do now. FWIW, I've seen SJU as a should-be perennial top tier program in the league. The injuries the last couple seasons seem to have given them a pass and I didn't think that was reflective of where the team was. I also agree with your questions of why not and then what? That is what SJU should be asking.
 

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Yeah, expectations are pretty high at VCU. That article that comes out every year ranking the head coaching jobs had this to say:
I think this is true for most A10 schools as far as recruiting goes though. Dayton has three ACC schools, two NBE schools, five B10, and Cincinnati and UK within 200 miles of its campus. Granted we’re not generally recruiting most of the same recruits but we’re bumping up against these schools a lot with better three star players in the region. We’ve done well in the Chicago area recently so there is even more competition for quality players. This is the reason that UD and VCU commit so much towards facilities and infrastructure. Both schools are on par with the P5 in this area.

Getting back to SJU. It does appear that a change is needed. The Hawks like UR should be in the top tier of the conference every year.
 

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Our expectations are not to lose 20 games in years where we don't make the tourney. I think newer A10 fans see 2014 and 2016 and say "what's wrong?" when they don't look at the 6 year gap between 2008 and 2014, twenty loss seasons in 2010, 2011, and 2017, a near 20 loss season in 2015, and meltdowns in 2012 and 2013,.

We have resources that will become available with the next coach as long as there is a real vision that is promoted. Phil always says how VCU has a goal every year of going to the final four but "that's just not the way it is here" and 1) why not? and 2) then what should our goal be?

It is time. It just is. I can separate Phil the man from Phil the coach. The question is whether Phil can separate SJU the employer and SJU the institution.

Further, Saint Joseph's basketball was around and successful for a lot longer than Phil has been there. I know that some, especially those newer to the league, think Phil turned a turd into something that was better than a turd, but they just don't know. And yes the landscape has changed but I assure that we have resources that do not want to give to this vision, which doesn't exist.
I have said before that SJU should be the Flagship or at least one of the flagships.

FWIW I was in attendance...

 

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Our expectations are not to lose 20 games in years where we don't make the tourney. I think newer A10 fans see 2014 and 2016 and say "what's wrong?" when they don't look at the 6 year gap between 2008 and 2014, twenty loss seasons in 2010, 2011, and 2017, a near 20 loss season in 2015, and meltdowns in 2012 and 2013,.

We have resources that will become available with the next coach as long as there is a real vision that is promoted. Phil always says how VCU has a goal every year of going to the final four but "that's just not the way it is here" and 1) why not? and 2) then what should our goal be?

It is time. It just is. I can separate Phil the man from Phil the coach. The question is whether Phil can separate SJU the employer and SJU the institution.

Further, Saint Joseph's basketball was around and successful for a lot longer than Phil has been there. I know that some, especially those newer to the league, think Phil turned a turd into something that was better than a turd, but they just don't know. And yes the landscape has changed but I assure that we have resources that do not want to give to this vision, which doesn't exist.
We had this discussion before last season and we would take Phil's record.

We would prefer alternating records of 13-20/23-10 over 18-15 every year.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I have said before that SJU should be the Flagship or at least one of the flagships.

FWIW I was in attendance...

https://youtu.be/mSIGQ-B2srs
What a game that was.

I don't remember this. Can you make the case for why you think SJU should be THE flagship of the conference? Given all of the puffed out chests of many Flyer Faithful and RamNation, I'd be surprised to hear you say this.
 
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