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What a game that was.

I don't remember this. Can you make the case for why you think SJU should be THE flagship of the conference? Given all of the puffed out chests of many Flyer Faithful and RamNation, I'd be surprised to hear you say this.
It’s a Philadelphia school with tradition. Great recruiting base. Phil has recruited a few really, really good players (1st round draft picks) recently so there is a precedent for good players to go to SJU. As JonBoy pointed out he relies heavily on senior laden teams vs. balanced recruiting. My outsider’s impression is that SJU operates like it’s the 90’s. You talk about vision and more resources so why shouldn’t SJU be a perennial top team in the conference? I don’t think that a new 10,000 seat facility is needed - just a different approach. Not too many seasons ago SJU was a top 30 team. The bones are there and IMO SJU would be a desirable job for an up and coming HC.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
It’s a Philadelphia school with tradition. Great recruiting base. Phil has recruited a few really, really good players (1st round draft picks) recently so there is a precedent for good players to go to SJU. As JonBoy pointed out he relies heavily on senior laden teams vs. balanced recruiting. My outsider’s impression is that SJU operates like it’s the 90’s. You talk about vision and more resources so why shouldn’t SJU be a perennial top team in the conference? I don’t think that a new 10,000 seat facility is needed - just a different approach. Not too many seasons ago SJU was a top 30 team. The bones are there and IMO SJU would be a desirable job for an up and coming HC.
A consistent top 30 team at that! SJU would get many, many highly qualified and competent applicants.

Still, I'm surprised you think that SJU should be THE flagship program in the conference.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
If Xavier could, why can't Joes?
Well, I guess you're right. They don't have a ton of students or overflowing amounts of cash.

I think the question at this point is whether it's still possible. Our time was in 2004 and we flubbed the shit out of it. We're a long ways away from then. The landscape has changed immensely.
 

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Well, I guess you're right. They don't have a ton of students or overflowing amounts of cash.

I think the question at this point is whether it's still possible. Our time was in 2004 and we flubbed the shit out of it. We're a long ways away from then. The landscape has changed immensely.
Yes, and around that same time, Xavier did not flub their chance in the same manner. And now they are in the BE. Sucking. But they're there.

ETA: I do realize there are forces against SJU getting that kind of opportunity, like the big V.
 

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A consistent top 30 team at that! SJU would get many, many highly qualified and competent applicants.

Still, I'm surprised you think that SJU should be THE flagship program in the conference.
Well, I also said “or one of the flagships”. I doubt that SJU will ever fund a program like UD or VCU, but I don’t know that it is needed. Should SJU spend more to close the gap between a mid major budget and P5 budget? Probably. It’s not about building new arenas, but funding a “P6” basketball program. The program has enough reputation left to be consistently in the top 4 in the conference IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Yes, and around that same time, Xavier did not flub their chance in the same manner. And now they are in the BE. Sucking. But they're there.

ETA: I do realize there are forces against SJU getting that kind of opportunity, like the big V.
It's funny, one of the nova troll posters who gets banned from our board at least once a year said from the beginning that the NBE was really good for SJU, as he felt it would give us the ability to slide into the X role. I wonder if that's still true.

And I don't want to go to the NBE, never mind that it'll never happen for about a billion reasons.

Well, I also said “or one of the flagships”. I doubt that SJU will ever fund a program like UD or VCU, but I don’t know that it is needed. Should SJU spend more to close the gap between a mid major budget and P5 budget? Probably. It’s not about building new arenas, but funding a “P6” basketball program. The program has enough reputation left to be consistently in the top 4 in the conference IMO.
I do believe our president has intimated that being a top 4 program consistently is his goal. We could use a new arena, sure, since we so royally fucked up the renovations, but the money isn't going to be there for that, at least not now. A practice facility? From what I hear that's being very much discussed. Charter flights everywhere? That's on there. Other stuff? Yup.

And I think you could be right, we may not need to spend the same dollars that VCU and UD do, as, perhaps, we do, in fact, have some built in advantages that those programs do not have in the same way, like the geographic location (but I'm not sure how many other advantages there could possibly be).

We need to do better, and we can't afford to wait. My informal thread on our board asked who has season tickets and doesn't plan to renew. It's only up to 40 seats as of now, but the people posting are the most passionate, longtime loyal fans. If they don't plan on coming back, turn off the lights and lock the doors.
 

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Well, I also said “or one of the flagships”. I doubt that SJU will ever fund a program like UD or VCU, but I don’t know that it is needed. Should SJU spend more to close the gap between a mid major budget and P5 budget? Probably. It’s not about building new arenas, but funding a “P6” basketball program. The program has enough reputation left to be consistently in the top 4 in the conference IMO.
Do you have info on the basketball budgets of all the A10 schools? Tuition and Room & Board skew things a little, but it would still be interesting to see those figures, as I have not seen them in a long time.
 

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Our expectations are not to lose 20 games in years where we don't make the tourney. I think newer A10 fans see 2014 and 2016 and say "what's wrong?" when they don't look at the 6 year gap between 2008 and 2014, twenty loss seasons in 2010, 2011, and 2017, a near 20 loss season in 2015, and meltdowns in 2012 and 2013,.

We have resources that will become available with the next coach as long as there is a real vision that is promoted. Phil always says how VCU has a goal every year of going to the final four but "that's just not the way it is here" and 1) why not? and 2) then what should our goal be?

It is time. It just is. I can separate Phil the man from Phil the coach. The question is whether Phil can separate SJU the employer and SJU the institution.

Further, Saint Joseph's basketball was around and successful for a lot longer than Phil has been there. I know that some, especially those newer to the league, think Phil turned a turd into something that was better than a turd, but they just don't know. And yes the landscape has changed but I assure that we have resources that do not want to give to this vision, which doesn't exist.
Ive been on record saying I love Phil. Phil has been one of the best ambassadors the A10 has ever had. He always goes out of his way to talk graciously about other teams and coaches in the league and is just a very personable and likeable guy. He IS St. Joe basketball the way Speedy Morris became LaSalle basketball.

Phil can also recruit. He probably finds more diamonds in the rough and hidden gems than anybody else ever did in this league sans John Chaney. Phil's style has always leveraged experienced teams and teams where 1-2 guys were Rolls Royce players. He had a couple teams in the Pat Carroll era I think that were pretty balanced and could hurt you 5-6 different ways, but for the most part Phil has a kid or two that mostly run the show and are among the best in the A10. Whether its Galloway or Brown or Dwayne Jones or Jameer, his teams usually have a guy who's "the man". UMass has taken on this same personality over the last 20yrs too going back to Monte Mack.

But I think this identity has become part of the frustration with Hawk fans. Phil, for whatever reasons, seems to always defy preseason expectations. When everyone thinks the Hawks can and should contend for big things, they fall terribly short. In some of those seasons that lost 20 games and it was inexplicable. Yet in years where SJU is picked to do a lot of nothing, Martelli has cobbled together teams that rise up and play beyond their years, beyond anyone's grandest expectations. This roller coaster is what wears thin with SJU fans every year. You never know what team Phil is going to give you even when you are all but convinced you think you have it figured out. He can take his most talented teams and run them into an oncoming train, then in 9 months take the scraps everyone thinks has no immediate future and get them into the NCAA at-large discussion.

Maybe Phil just prefers being the underdog all the time. When he has a team to beat, it usually doesnt end well.

I think the one difference between SJU and UMass is (other than overall success the last 20yrs) is when SJU is mediocre in any single season they are usually mediocre every night. But when UMass is mediocre, they are Michigan State one night and Michigan Tech the next. The average results in mediocre.

I think Phil has and deserves tenure. Hes has to deal with some injuries the last few years. But all A10 teams have so his situation was not worse than some others (like guys actually dying). Phil needs to self-evaluate a bit more however and maybe look to his staff to figure out why the roller coaster is a program trait. Phila has enough talented HS kids that SJU should always be good even if Nova and Temple get first dibs. I think Phil needs to do a better job of assembling more complimentary pieces. Too often his teams seem overloaded with 2-3 legit studs and then everyone else is just ornamental. Some better balance even if it means he doesnt have an A10 POY type guy on the team every year might pay better dividends.

FWIW, Dayton has never had an A10 POY. You probably one need one to get to a Final Four (Nelson).
 

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Do you have info on the basketball budgets of all the A10 schools? Tuition and Room & Board skew things a little, but it would still be interesting to see those figures, as I have not seen them in a long time.
Bona84 referenced this site a couple years ago.

It breaks down operating expenses and revenue for basketball and other sports.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details
 

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I read that Checco Oliva had or is having surgery to repair ligaments. Are there any reports about damage to nerves and arteries? If I am not mistaken, this is what makes a dislocated knee so serious.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
I read that Checco Oliva had or is having surgery to repair ligaments. Are there any reports about damage to nerves and arteries? If I am not mistaken, this is what makes a dislocated knee so serious.
No info available on the extent of the damage. If you did not see or hear the photos/video/audio, I recommend you do not. He did not need emergency surgery, which insofar as I can tell is a good thing.
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It seems like a sure bet that he'll never play college ball again, and it is unknown if he'll ever play basketball ever again in any form. I know teams in Europe were very interested in him and I heard rumors that he was likely to explore some options this summer, but that obviously won't happen now.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
https://sju.edu/news-events/news/8-questions-jill-bodensteiner

This is so incredibly refreshing to read.


The men's season so far has been a little more confusing because their performance in games has not met our pre-season expectations. No one's working harder to right the ship than Coach Martelli and his staff. But frankly, we need to be better at everything we do related to basketball, and that includes me. We have a long way to go in terms of fan experience, in game production, facilities and other aspects if we are going to be a top-tier basketball program that's expecting to compete for NCAA bids on a regular basis. Of course, we don't have the luxury of time, because no one else in college athletics is waiting for us. So I spend a significant portion of my time plotting how we can be better in basketball, both on and off the court. I am very confident that we’ll get there.
 

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I know talk is cheap, but we've never even had talk before.

Is this not the exact kind of start you'd be looking for?
I guess firing Phil and bringing in a new coach is needed but the firing is not going to be looked upon as a good move. Phil is the Dean and giving him the boot might get messy.
 

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I guess firing Phil and bringing in a new coach is needed but the firing is not going to be looked upon as a good move. Phil is the Dean and giving him the boot might get messy.
Two ways to look at it - Phil is well-respected in college basketball. You make that departure as un-messy as possible by handling it internally and Phil steps down on his own. You can't unceremoniously dump Phil or the powers that be see that in a bad light.

Or, if Phil chooses to make it messy, you fire him, and it's a signal to up and coming coaches that this school just let go the Dean, they expect success, they're going to give me what I want to put a quality basketball product on the court, they don't have football, I want to interview for the SJU job.

Since I would imagine SJU is not going to be a destination for an established coach, I think firing Phil works out OK. For his sake, I hope he reads the writing and steps down.
 

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Two ways to look at it - Phil is well-respected in college basketball. You make that departure as un-messy as possible by handling it internally and Phil steps down on his own. You can't unceremoniously dump Phil or the powers that be see that in a bad light.

Or, if Phil chooses to make it messy, you fire him, and it's a signal to up and coming coaches that this school just let go the Dean, they expect success, they're going to give me what I want to put a quality basketball product on the court, they don't have football, I want to interview for the SJU job.

Since I would imagine SJU is not going to be a destination for an established coach, I think firing Phil works out OK. For his sake, I hope he reads the writing and steps down.
I think that is the rub. Phil does not seem like he wants to step down. The best case scenario is if they are going to make a change would be to have him announce his retirement. Temple kind of ran into this with Dumphy. He is leaving this year but I do not think he wants to leave.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Two ways to look at it - Phil is well-respected in college basketball. You make that departure as un-messy as possible by handling it internally and Phil steps down on his own. You can't unceremoniously dump Phil or the powers that be see that in a bad light.

Or, if Phil chooses to make it messy, you fire him, and it's a signal to up and coming coaches that this school just let go the Dean, they expect success, they're going to give me what I want to put a quality basketball product on the court, they don't have football, I want to interview for the SJU job.

Since I would imagine SJU is not going to be a destination for an established coach, I think firing Phil works out OK. For his sake, I hope he reads the writing and steps down.
I think this is pretty much on the money.

I think that is the rub. Phil does not seem like he wants to step down. The best case scenario is if they are going to make a change would be to have him announce his retirement. Temple kind of ran into this with Dumphy. He is leaving this year but I do not think he wants to leave.
And I totally understand not wanting to leave. But it is time...

I want Phil to have the rest of the reason for a proper send off. I don't think that will happen, though.
 
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