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Yes I imagine virtually all Ivy league basketball players are receiving completely free rides. At Dartmouth nearly 40% of the student body doesn’t pay a dime in tuition. This isn’t merit scholarships or a “gray area”, this simply if your a student from a low income or middle-class background the school has you covered with financial aid.

I know for example Miye Oni ended up at Yale because of their generous financial aid package. As many of you may know, he was set to go to Williams (a well-endowed school with hefty financial aid resources itself), but then over the summer—not sure the exact timeline—Jones reached out and said something to the degree of “come over to Yale, we have a full ride financial aid package for you.”

However, the Ivies don’t compromise on academic standards the way Duke or Stanford does. My guess is Alotutu had his eyes set on going to an ivy, but every coach told “I like you, but I can’t get you in.” I think we end up with a lot of recruits like that.

If an athlete has the academic credentials it’s unlikely they’ll ever choose UVM over an Ivy. We have no advantage because we offer athketic scholarships. That’s just a reality we need to recognize. That said the pool of high school basketball players that can get into UVM is much, much bigger.
The Ivies claim that they don't give scholarships. Technically, this might be true - but not really... I'm not completely certain about this, but I heard that Steidl and Sandro were offered by Yale. And I'm very confident that Luke could more than hold his own anywhere. Those are just three players that come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
 

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Ivy League doesn’t not provide “scholarships” but the kids it’s coaches recruit do not pay a dime to attend and play basketball at the school. That’s why the Ivy League is getting the players it’s been over the past 10 years Or so as more of them emphasizing hoops.

Nobody thinks players like Seth Towns and Bryce Aiken are actually paying 60K a year, or even $1 a year, to play for Harvard, right?
 
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Ivy League doesn’t not provide “scholarships” but the kids it’s coaches recruit do not pay a dime to attend and play basketball at the school. That’s why the Ivy League is getting the players it’s been over the past 10 years Or so as more of them emphasizing hoops.

Nobody thinks players like Seth Towns and Bryce Aiken are actually paying 60K a year, or even $1 a year, to play for Harvard, right?
For sure. And Seth Towns or Aiken probably would not have gotten into Harvard without basketball, but they certainly had bonafide enough academic resumes to make it an option. Most high school athletes (let's be honest--even UVM's recruits) don't meet that standard. I assume Alotutu was in this bucket: he had a dream of playin Ivy League basketball but--even with coaches pulling for him--simply didn't have the grades and academic resume to make the cut.

The Ivies claim that they don't give scholarships. Technically, this might be true - but not really... I'm not completely certain about this, but I heard that Steidl and Sandro were offered by Yale. And I'm very confident that Luke could more than hold his own anywhere. Those are just three players that come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
I would need to see evidence that Steidl and Sandro were accepted to Yale before I believe that statement (there's a hyper-early application process of sorts for Ivy League recruits. I had a HS friend who was recruited to play at Harvard). I know Sandro excelled academically at UVM (so did Lamb, and maybe Apfeld to a degree... but he made a name for himself after college/in law school) but having a 3.8 GPA or whatever as an undergrad business administration major at UVM doesn't quite equate to getting into Yale--even as an Ivy League athlete.

I don't know Sandro's story (though I do know he's from a posh Westchester suburb) but I do know Steidl's to some degree, and that is a family that was certainly making well north of that $125K figure needed to achieve a free-ride. And Steidl's siblings ended up following him to UVM as $60k-per-year out-of-state students... money was not an issue for that family. If he wanted to go to Yale (and pay the full $60K/yr) his parents would definitely make it clear that they would support him. I really doubt Yale was ever a viable option for him unless I see solid evidence that he made the cut academically.
 

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For sure. And Seth Towns or Aiken probably would not have gotten into Harvard without basketball, but they certainly had bonafide enough academic resumes to make it an option. Most high school athletes (let's be honest--even UVM's recruits) don't meet that standard. I assume Alotutu was in this bucket: he had a dream of playin Ivy League basketball but--even with coaches pulling for him--simply didn't have the grades and academic resume to make the cut.



I would need to see evidence that Steidl and Sandro were accepted to Yale before I believe that statement (there's a hyper-early application process of sorts for Ivy League recruits. I had a HS friend who was recruited to play at Harvard). I know Sandro excelled academically at UVM (so did Lamb, and maybe Apfeld to a degree... but he made a name for himself after college/in law school) but having a 3.8 GPA or whatever as an undergrad business administration major at UVM doesn't quite equate to getting into Yale--even as an Ivy League athlete.

I don't know Sandro's story (though I do know he's from a posh Westchester suburb) but I do know Steidl's to some degree, and that is a family that was certainly making well north of that $125K figure needed to achieve a free-ride. And Steidl's siblings ended up following him to UVM as $60k-per-year out-of-state students... money was not an issue for that family. If he wanted to go to Yale (and pay the full $60K/yr) his parents would definitely make it clear that they would support him. I really doubt Yale was ever a viable option for him unless I see solid evidence that he made the cut academically.
I follow the Cats closely, always curious about who they're up against in recruiting. I read about the Yale option (recruitment) as far as Steidl and Sandro in interviews and/or profiles. When I read it, I remember it jumping out at me. I can't comment on whether they were financially eligible for the Ivy free ride. The Steidls appear to have a deep connection with UVM.
 

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For sure. And Seth Towns or Aiken probably would not have gotten into Harvard without basketball, but they certainly had bonafide enough academic resumes to make it an option. Most high school athletes (let's be honest--even UVM's recruits) don't meet that standard. I assume Alotutu was in this bucket: he had a dream of playin Ivy League basketball but--even with coaches pulling for him--simply didn't have the grades and academic resume to make the cut.
Definitely. These kids have to be at least somewhat decent academically to attend Ivy League schools, no question they are not min qualifiers. That said, the point is mainly that these kids are not paying to play there. If they were, nobody would see them choosing Ivies at the rate they have in recent history over other BCS schools that provide scholarships.
 
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Additionally:

*Yale, Dartmouth, Brown all wanted Steidl out of HS.

*Brown and Harvard were interested in Carissimo

*Luke Apfeld was an amazing student while at UVM and was all Capital One District One Academic team 3 years and was a double major.
 

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Definitely. These kids have to be at least somewhat decent academically to attend Ivy League schools, no question they are not min qualifiers. That said, the point is mainly that these kids are not paying to play there. If they were, nobody would see them choosing Ivies at the rate they have in recent history over other BCS schools that provide scholarships.
The Ivies calculate an overall class index of SAT and GPA for their student body, and the indices of the composite rosters of each sport have to be within, I believe, a half a standard deviation of the student body's. Harvard, as of a few years ago, also had a minimum individual SAT which was relatively modest by Harvard standards but fairly substantial by typical hoops recruit standards. So a recruit or two with borderline basketball skills and excellent academic credentials could balance out a high-priority recruit with a lesser academic record. As far as cost, Harvard's financial aid for all students is the most generous in the country. I had a couple of daughters there a decade ago and while our family income didn't put us in a particularly high-need range, their cost of attendance there was comparable to what it would have cost to pay room, board and fees with a full-tuition scholarship at an in-state public school in Georgia.
 

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Adam Finkelstein

@AdamFinkelstein


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Evan Guillory has committed to Vermont. He should be an immediate impact player in the America East.

powerful, college-ready body

attacking driver

elite defender at this stage

high-motor & competitor
 

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Adam Finkelstein
@AdamFinkelstein


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@NHSHuskySports
Evan Guillory has committed to Vermont. He should be an immediate impact player in the America East.

powerful, college-ready body

attacking driver

elite defender at this stage

high-motor & competitor
Plays at New Hampton School for Andrew Gale, who some of you with steel-trap minds may remember was a Manager/Grad Assistant at UVM under Becker a few years back. Great connection to work.
 

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Adam Finkelstein
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@NHSHuskySports
Evan Guillory has committed to Vermont. He should be an immediate impact player in the America East.

powerful, college-ready body

attacking driver

elite defender at this stage

high-motor & competitor
Junior Year Highlights:

Sophomore Year:

Some crazy athleticism, a knack for blocks, good scorer.
 

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Plays at New Hampton School for Andrew Gale, who some of you with steel-trap minds may remember was a Manager/Grad Assistant at UVM under Becker a few years back. Great connection to work.
And Becker’s nephew played with Guillory last season on the team that won the NEPSAC AAA championship. Guillory at the end of that game was amazing playing against high major recruits. Game is on youtube
 

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Wow. Love this. I feel like Alamutu and Guillory are the type of players we offer early on then ultimately end up someplace else, some place higher, but we’ve landed both. Great stuff.

Let’s go! Now, just get the vaccine directly into my arm and let’s party. 2021, big things.
 
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Wow. Love this. I feel like Alamutu and Guillory are the type of players we offer early on then ultimately end up someplace else, some place higher, but we’ve landed both. Great stuff.

Let’s go! Now, just get the vaccine directly into my arm and let’s party. 2021, big things.
So far it's safe to say the pandemic and related shutdowns have had quite a favorable effect on UVM's recruiting.

What I'm worried about is UVM gets political again and doesn't allow Stef, Benny and the other seniors back for their fifths (sixth?) seasons even though their scholarships won't count towards the limit.
 

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What I'm worried about is UVM gets political again and doesn't allow Stef, Benny and the other seniors back for their fifths (sixth?) seasons even though their scholarships won't count towards the limit.
Question: Are we sure they want to come back?

To say nothing of the idea of grad transferring and "playing up" for a year somewhere else, these guys should probably all have degrees in their hands by May (does Benny already have one, considering he's now in Year 5?). Stef specifically can probably go make a little money playing ball somewhere next year (and probably doesn't increase the amount of money he'd make by staying in school a year). But Ben and Bailey will have already been on campus for 5 and 4 years, respectively. Maybe they're good with it?

I know, it's easy to think of these guys as wanting to play as much ball as possible as long as they can. And maybe they do. And if they want to they should be able to. But let's not assume that if they don't come back that it wasn't their choice.
 

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I wonder if recruiting is going to change once kids are able to make in-person visits to campuses again. In football, a verbal commitment doesn't really mean a whole lot as other schools continue recruiting the kids. You always see guys flip their commitment. Like a prominent retired hoops coach once said, I love when a kid makes a verbal commitment because then I know who my competition is.

Anyway, I wonder if we see more flips in hoops than we normally have, which isn't many at all.
 

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What I'm worried about is UVM gets political again and doesn't allow Stef, Benny and the other seniors back for their fifths (sixth?) seasons even though their scholarships won't count towards the limit.
Becker addressed this in his BFP interview article, they are having ongoing discussions about it. I think it's a difficult decision and needs to be managed on a case-by-case basis. I do see both sides, you want a player like Stef or hometown kid like Shungu to have a proper senior year, but you also need to manage for continued success and perhaps Aaron Deloney didn't expect to still be behind Stef or Shungu by his junior year when he signed on at UVM.
 

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Junior Year Highlights:

Sophomore Year:

Some crazy athleticism, a knack for blocks, good scorer.
A great get. Very excited, and it raises interesting questions about what they current array of guards have in mind for next year. Do Bennie and Stef come back? That would introduce all sorts of issues, I would guess, unless we want to run a 4 guard offense!
 

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Question: Are we sure they want to come back?

To say nothing of the idea of grad transferring and "playing up" for a year somewhere else, these guys should probably all have degrees in their hands by May (does Benny already have one, considering he's now in Year 5?). Stef specifically can probably go make a little money playing ball somewhere next year (and probably doesn't increase the amount of money he'd make by staying in school a year). But Ben and Bailey will have already been on campus for 5 and 4 years, respectively. Maybe they're good with it?

I know, it's easy to think of these guys as wanting to play as much ball as possible as long as they can. And maybe they do. And if they want to they should be able to. But let's not assume that if they don't come back that it wasn't their choice.
Exactly. My feeling is the seniors likely move on regardless. But, I'd add on that Schulman categorically said in a statement either to the Freep or one of the other local media earlier this year that spring sport athletes, who were granted waivers by the NCAA to stay on after their seasons were canceled need to move on as the university would not up or honor any scholarship commitments to them. While we know basketball gets preferential treatment and it's a possibility there could be some workarounds, I'm going to imagine the same thing applies here. Any "conversations" about it re: Becker's statements I am not reading too much into right now...but I'd argue if they were serious about it, they wouldn't be landing incoming freshman for 2021, right? I would just say everyone should commit now to knowing this is the last year of the current senior class and then be surprised if it's not. It's not worth the effort to envision otherwise.
 
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