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http://instagr.am/p/CSzh7EsPwF1/
The guy next to AD in this pic is 6’ 2”.

Next topic please.
His height has always been a debate. In the pic 3" of Deloney is hair . I've always thought he was under 6' but probably only and inch or two judging by other players near him in pics. Listed hts. sometimes are exaggerated but in case of Fiorillo last yr he seemed to have grown in wt and ht. Judging by pics.he looked a healthy 6'8"
 

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His height has always been a debate. In the pic 3" of Deloney is hair . I've always thought he was under 6' but probably only and inch or two judging by other players near him in pics. Listed hts. sometimes are exaggerated but in case of Fiorillo last yr he seemed to have grown in wt and ht. Judging by pics.he looked a healthy 6'8"
You could argue 5’11” with AD, but people saying he’s a 5’8”-5’9” defensive liability are over exaggerating. TBH was only 6’ and was a great defender. It’s about mind set as much as anything. West coast guys have historically been slow to develop defensively in our system. Josh Herlihy, Drew Urqhart, AD, etc. Finn being the exception. Josh (With Portland) and Drew both ended up having great senior years and were talented dudes. I have Faith in AD. Again, he needs more minutes and to be more consistent. If he doesn’t get more opportunities this year, the bigger concern is, I wouldn’t be surprised if he left.
 

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You could argue 5’11” with AD, but people saying he’s a 5’8”-5’9” defensive liability are over exaggerating. TBH was only 6’ and was a great defender. It’s about mind set as much as anything. West coast guys have historically been slow to develop defensively in our system. Josh Herlihy, Drew Urqhart, AD, etc. Finn being the exception. Josh (With Portland) and Drew both ended up having great senior years and were talented dudes. I have Faith in AD. Again, he needs more minutes and to be more consistent. If he doesn’t get more opportunities this year, the bigger concern is, I wouldn’t be surprised if he left.
A few things here: TBH has always been identified as 6’2”. I have never heard of anyone asserting he was a 6 footer, ‘til now. It seems to me that he was not particularly strong defensively and Becker, to the best of my memory, never identified that as a strength of his…game management, speed, free throws and driving to the hoop? Yes. And stating that “west coast guys have always been slow to develop defensively in our system”?? Such generalities and assumptions about new west coast guys seems to be a bit of a leap.
 

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A few things here: TBH has always been identified as 6’2”. I have never heard of anyone asserting he was a 6 footer, ‘til now. It seems to me that he was not particularly strong defensively and Becker, to the best of my memory, never identified that as a strength of his…game management, speed, free throws and driving to the hoop? Yes. And stating that “west coast guys have always been slow to develop defensively in our system”?? Such generalities and assumptions about new west coast guys seems to be a bit of a leap.
TBH was listed at 6’2” and might have been 6’1”, I’ll concede that. But “not particularly strong defensively”? How many POYs weren’t at least mediocre defenders? I completely disagree with that statement. He’s a talented European pro. His shooting kept him from getting more NBA looks, not his defense. Bad take.

And my statements and perspective on West coast guys are based off the former players I actually mentioned, not sure what you’re even driving at. The three guys I mentioned spent years on the bench and or in the dog house, I’m speculating that it might have to be with a different style of basketball played on the west coast. Such “generalities and assumptions” are a fun part of the off season??
 

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TBH was listed at 6’2” and might have been 6’1”, I’ll concede that. But “not particularly strong defensively”? How many POYs weren’t at least mediocre defenders? I completely disagree with that statement. He’s a talented European pro. His shooting kept him from getting more NBA looks, not his defense. Bad take.

And my statements and perspective on West coast guys are based off the former players I actually mentioned, not sure what you’re even driving at. The three guys I mentioned spent years on the bench and or in the dog house, I’m speculating that it might have to be with a different style of basketball played on the west coast. Such “generalities and assumptions” are a fun part of the off season??
You know, your point is well taken re TBH's defensive strengths...he led the team in steals a number of years, for instance. As for the business about guys from the west coast perhaps having a different style of play out there, that is completely new to me...never heard that one. Thus, in my mind, offering conjecture re likely success of guys we bring in from the west coast seems like a stretch. In the end, all good, as we all are looking forward to the upcoming season!
 

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Taking another look at Perry Smith, I struggle to see how Nick doesn’t take a back seat to him, at least eventually. Unless he’s a total liability on defense.

This reel is from last year

http://instagr.am/p/CQpcDM8guiF/
It's a highlight reel. Probably not really representative of how he'll play at DI. If he surpasses Nick at some point this season, that's probably a good thing for UVM, but I'll be pretty surprised if it happens.
 

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It's a highlight reel. Probably not really representative of how he'll play at DI. If he surpasses Nick at some point this season, that's probably a good thing for UVM, but I'll be pretty surprised if it happens.
Im aware it’s highlight reel and how that translates. I’m also able to look at that and know immediately he has better handles, athleticism, and court vision, etc. than Nick. Why do you think Lamb started as a freshman? Because he was head and shoulders more talented than the other guys at his position. Becker is not typically bullish on underclassmen at all but when it’s obvious, it’s obvious.
 

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Im aware it’s highlight reel and how that translates. I’m also able to look at that and know immediately he has better handles, athleticism, and court vision, etc. than Nick. Why do you think Lamb started as a freshman? Because he was head and shoulders more talented than the other guys at his position. Becker is not typically bullish on underclassmen at all but when it’s obvious, it’s obvious.
Lamb was definitely the exception, not the rule. Lately, guys have to earn their way into the rotation. They have to demonstrate that they can be trusted to make the right decisions on offense and defense. That has very little to do with their handles, athleticism and court vision. Again, I hope that you're right. UVM hasn't seen a Freshman come in and contribute in a meaningful way, since Lamb.

Fair warning, if you are saying that this kid is the second coming of Lamb, you're going to get some heat on this forum. It would be great if it turns out to be true and I will certainly acknowledge your prognostication skills.
 

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It's a highlight reel. Probably not really representative of how he'll play at DI. If he surpasses Nick at some point this season, that's probably a good thing for UVM, but I'll be pretty surprised if it happens.
Yeah, for all the things you can see in that reel, I'll tell you what I didn't see: a single player that was taller than he was. Or stronger. Or in any way visibly as/more athletic. Even in the lowly AE, he will see all of those things.

That said, there will be opportunities for freshmen to get minutes this year, just out of necessity. As there was in 2014-15, the last time we saw this level of off-season turnover. If any of them are ready they'll get them, the same way TBH and Cam Ward and Zach McRoberts got them. Also, to bring it back around to this specific conversation, I don't think "Fiorillo or Smith" is a binary choice. Stylistically from what I've seen (which admittedly isn't a lot), could they not play side-by-side like Davis and Powell (a store-brand version of Davis/Powell, in this case).
 

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Big men take time to develop from the HS to DI level. I expect Fiorillo to start for at least the first half of the season, if not more. But we'll see. As stated, if PS gets the nod, than that is a good thing for the program. I still have my money of Veretto getting every start and being conference POY;)

And as for GoCatsGo's comments, I think they are spot on regarding height and strength of opponents. In a way it reminds me of Ra Kpedi's highlight clips, with the the major difference being Perry Smith looks by far to be more athletic and energetic than Ra did, but both were dominating (at least in the clips) smaller opponents.
 

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Lamb was definitely the exception, not the rule. Lately, guys have to earn their way into the rotation. They have to demonstrate that they can be trusted to make the right decisions on offense and defense. That has very little to do with their handles, athleticism and court vision. Again, I hope that you're right. UVM hasn't seen a Freshman come in and contribute in a meaningful way, since Lamb.

Fair warning, if you are saying that this kid is the second coming of Lamb, you're going to get some heat on this forum. It would be great if it turns out to be true and I will certainly acknowledge your prognostication skills.
Warning heard, but that’s absolutely not what I said. I’ve actually been active on this board for over 15 years. I’m trying to offer possibilities based on hours of watching prospects over the years and now having a son that’s close to the team. That’s it. I’ll be the first to say most of what I offer is speculative based on the fact I’ve been doing this for a while.

Listen closely-

Perry Smith may never get off the bench.

You’re absolutely wrong about being able to glean intangibles or talent from highlight reels. Which is why thousands are made every year and sent to coaches all over the country. I’m well aware it doesn’t always translate to success. No one is saying that. Kids are recruited on potential, that’s it.

Perry Smith has a much higher ceiling than Nick and I’m excited about him. No one’s talking about the 2nd coming of Lamb.

I’m also done being an apologist for this teams success or being afraid to be bullish on exciting prospects. It’s a really shitty component of this whole board to flame fans that are less in the know, for getting excited about recruits. It’s elitist nonsense that drives away the laymen.

I could be completely wrong on all my takes. But, I like Smith a lot and don’t care if people think I’m a raving idiot (it’s possible).
 

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I remember Giddens starting and getting less minutes than the next guy off the bench (Ryan?) It would definitely make sense that promises were made to land him over a bunch of much bigger schools. Don’t underestimate how much competition we had for Smith. South Carolina, LSU, Texas AM, Marquette, etc… Are we really comparing him to Ra Pedi? Who would be surprised if we offered Perry a starting spot to compete with these schools? Make no mistake, UVM is competing for talent at a much higher level than in the past. Enjoy it. Be excited. And F$*#k Bryant.
 

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Relevant today, and to the above discussion and "who UVM beat" to land Perry Smith Jr. (Facts: they beat Alabama A&M of the SWAC, not Alabama of the SEC).
Nit pick it all you want. Smith had a level of interest not commonly seen in our conference. Also, his offers can be verified on Verbal Commits, while not perfect, is a pretty reputable source. If anything, they under report offers.You can see who wanted him under closed offers.
 

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Nit pick it all you want. Smith had a level of interest not commonly seen in our conference. Also, his offers can be verified on Verbal Commits, while not perfect, is a pretty reputable source. If anything, they under report offers.You can see who wanted him under closed offers.

Aware...and all those offers are 2 years old, meaning all those schools you are trying to say make him a higher class of recruit weren't that interested to begin with/found better options/realized Smith isn't actually their caliber of player. Thus, tweet is still relevant. The great thing is he might be UVM's caliber of player, but some people just want to wait and see.* Verbal Commits takes the word of players tweeting it out too, so let's not get carried away with them being any more reputable than anything else.

*Also acting as though everyone poo poos recruits here is an entirely inaccurate description of most UVM people who post here. You will find plenty who are willing to take up your cause.
 

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I don't know how any of these UVM recruits are going to do next season, other then the fact Matt Veretto will win both AE Newcomer of the Year and AE POY awards, which is a near total goddamn lock.
 

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Warning heard, but that’s absolutely not what I said. I’ve actually been active on this board for over 15 years. I’m trying to offer possibilities based on hours of watching prospects over the years and now having a son that’s close to the team. That’s it. I’ll be the first to say most of what I offer is speculative based on the fact I’ve been doing this for a while.

Listen closely-

Perry Smith may never get off the bench.

You’re absolutely wrong about being able to glean intangibles or talent from highlight reels. Which is why thousands are made every year and sent to coaches all over the country. I’m well aware it doesn’t always translate to success. No one is saying that. Kids are recruited on potential, that’s it.

Perry Smith has a much higher ceiling than Nick and I’m excited about him. No one’s talking about the 2nd coming of Lamb.

I’m also done being an apologist for this teams success or being afraid to be bullish on exciting prospects. It’s a really shitty component of this whole board to flame fans that are less in the know, for getting excited about recruits. It’s elitist nonsense that drives away the laymen.

I could be completely wrong on all my takes. But, I like Smith a lot and don’t care if people think I’m a raving idiot (it’s possible).
I guess I'm confused, your first post about him was that he was, in your opinion, going to surpass Nick this season. Now you're saying he may not get off the bench?

I get that you're excited about him based on what your son who probably plays pickup with the team has said and you watching his hype reels. That's great for you. Have at it. As I've said all along, I hope that he turns out great. I think that we all do. But if in your 15 years of experience on this forum, you haven't seen participants get super excited about recruits or transfers only to have their hopes dashed when they turn out to be relegated to the bench and then transfer out or down, more times than not, I think that you've missed some things.

I'm certainly not trying to steal your joy. I get excited about the team too, but I also try to temper my expectations with a bit of reality and actually need to see the players against D I competition in Becker's system before I get too excited.
 

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Lol… I had a feeling you couldn’t resist. Decided not to engage with you. Have a good day, man!
Oh don't worry. I saw what you wrote before the edit. Don't cop out now.

Context matters. Announced a "top eight" in September 2021 (source: ) . Decides between Alabama A&M and UVM in April 2022. That's plenty of time for evaluation from said schools...or maybe Smith jumped the gun and those offers weren't as firm as he thought. It happens. At that point, can we really say Covid "took away" something from him? AAU was going on in summer 2021. None of that means Smith is going to be some bum. Guys are under-recruited or overlooked all the time, and sometimes schools lower down the chain benefit, but get a grip. Some people just want to be measured. It's a perfectly normal thing, and look if you want to make the assertions you made, you have to be prepared to defend them. Or, you could just take the L and admit you got entirely too worked up over what, 2 people saying "we'll see" about a new freshman...and people who truly weren't being "elitist" to you.

I can resist any time I want. You left a big target, and you too chose to take the bait.
 
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