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All the transfer talk is kinda toxic, though I understand it's something that just comes with the territory.
It was probably 5-7 years ago, now transferring is such an everyday, common occurrence, par for the course part of D1 college basketball. Unfortunately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,142 ·
It was probably 5-7 years ago, now transferring is such an everyday, common occurrence, par for the course part of D1 college basketball. Unfortunately.
Sure, guys transfer at a higher clip than ever. But the in-season handicapping of it is kinda gross, in my opinion (and maybe only my opinion). It just speaks to a larger unhealthy cycle where we (used very broadly) overhype guys before they get here, try to run them off after a year (or less) when they undershoot our expectations, and in the end when we're wrong about both we just continue without learning anything. My two cents.
 

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Not sure how many Catamount fans remember Jordan Clarke? Huge recruit from DC area under Lonergan, 6'7"/6'8" or so, had a million D1 offers and a lot of hype. Got to UVM, was not nearly as athletic as I thought he was going to be. Didn't make an initial huge impact as a freshman but showed some potential. Solid, but didn't stick around UVM to develop and transferred to Drake, where he did become a really good rebounder.

Smith Jr freshman frosh season reminds me a bit of Clarke, although I obviously hope he sticks around.
I think the Jordan Clarke situation was somewhat complicated. There was a lot of information or misinformation thrown out there. I'd like to know the true story. However, glad he was able to reach his potential at Drake.
 

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Sure, guys transfer at a higher clip than ever. But the in-season handicapping of it is kinda gross, in my opinion (and maybe only my opinion). It just speaks to a larger unhealthy cycle where we (used very broadly) overhype guys before they get here, try to run them off after a year (or less) when they undershoot our expectations, and in the end when we're wrong about both we just continue without learning anything. My two cents.
I totally agree with you on the point of speculation around "X" player is going to transfer. It's happened with so many players over the years Trimboli, Trapani, Clarke, McGlynn, etc etc

That being said I think it's ok to speak in general terms in that hey, it probably pretty likely one of these new front court players will transfer out, because it is just the state of college basketball now. To be clear, I want them all to stay and develop because players that stay do get better here. But, we know that's not always what happens. Players are on their own timelines.

UVM/Becker has also leaned in more to the other side of that trade; just look at how many more transfers and grad transfers we're taking in these days....Sullivan, Mazzulla, Ilo, Penn, Veretto, etc etc

Just look at our recruiting, too. While there's no doubt we are missing on some of the top kids everyone is after, I think it's become pretty apparent we're saving scholarships for the Portal just given our activity and relative success with it.

The portal taketh and giveth
 
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I’m really hoping Ochoa’s lack of time at this point is no longer due to conditioning. I mean, it’s mid-January. If you’re 18 years old and can’t get in shape in 3 months, just call it a day.

I’ve got to believe it’s that they don’t think he’s ready to contribute, although it’s a little demoralizing that Smith and Ochoa are combing for 5 minutes a game on a team that has no real inside presence.

I do think (hope?) that this will all work out fine in the long run. We all know that very few bigs have a major impact in this league as freshmen. It would be really nice if the Smith/IAF/Ochoa combo developed together over the next couple of years, along with Joba. That has the potential to be pretty good group.
Missing out on Jonathan Beagle hurts even more now. Averaging 12 and 7 on 50% shooting for Albany. 6'9" 240 lbs.
 

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Albany is closer to him by about an hour, which I'm guessing means he either grew up a Syracuse or Albany fan - either way that's not great for us. That's also a town over from where Jimmer Fredette and Joe Girard III grew up - seems like we should be doing some more recruiting there.
I know Albany was closer but was hoping uvm's rep would sway him Anyway we missed a good one. Hope Smith and Ochoa stay and progress toward their reps and Joba is as advertised .
 

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Beagle was a City Rocks AAU player. Hamlet Tibbs was formerly a City Rocks coach; not saying there's any guarantees he'd have gone to UVM but would have liked our chances given Tibbs got other City Rocks players to UVM (Lamb, Moll (Powell). My guess Tibbs helped land Beagle & Drumgoole to Albany (both City Rocks players) in his brief time there, before moving on to Notre Dame.
 

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I know Albany was closer but was hoping uvm's rep would sway him Anyway we missed a good one. Hope Smith and Ochoa stay and progress toward their reps and Joba is as advertised .
Agreed - I think in today's game you have to bank on at least one guy transferring out each year. I'm kinda pulling that out of my rear end, but it feels like a relatively safe assumption. Not sure who that would be, but either way we're looking at some significant roster turnover next year. Currently we'll be losing 4 of our top 5 guys by minutes played, and that's assuming Deloney stays - if he leaves, we lose all 5.
 

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There's little doubt we need to absolutely crush recruiting for next year. The opportunities for immediate playing time & scoring should hopefully entice some people.

Team this year is "down" and look at all we lose.....
 

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There's little doubt we need to absolutely crush recruiting for next year.

Team this year is "down" and look at all we lose.....
I'm thinking we'll need to hit on an impact transfer along with get some Freshman who can play right away. Grad transfers are tricky because it creates a cycle of constant turnover, but even getting a transfer similar to when we picked up Finn would be a nice bolster to the roster. Also, given the minutes that are opening up at guard, it might be an easier pitch to get a guy to transfer in, or land a higher touted freshman. Silver lining to losing those guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,153 ·
There's little doubt we need to absolutely crush recruiting for next year. The opportunities for immediate playing time & scoring should hopefully entice some people.

Team this year is "down" and look at all we lose.....
Numbers may move a couple of percentage points over the next couple weeks, but right now we're on pace to lose right about 50% of our minutes played from this season. That is significant. I think it was about 57% from last year to this year. If we were to lose someone like Deloney (not saying we will, but he'd presumably have a degree at the end of this season), that number balloons to almost 63%.

I'd usually save this for the 23-24 Catamount thread (although the last few days this has been the 23-24 Catamount thread; amazing what 8 days off will do to you), but just a quick snapshot of our roster of players who are eligible to return for next season for those who are interested...

*1 YEAR REMAINING
-Aaron Deloney
-Matt Veretto

*2 YEARS REMAINING
-Ileri Ayo-Faleye
-Nick Fiorillo

*3 YEARS REMAINING
-Sam Alamutu
-TJ Hurley
-Jorge Ochoa
-Perry Smith
-Michel Ndayishimiye (Walk-On)

*4 YEARS REMAINING
-Seth Joba
-Jackson Skipper

-3 Open Scholarships

I figured this was a better way of classifying guys right now, especially as we all still work through the last vestiges of the Covid year.
 

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Does anyone know the latest on Fiorillo? He'd be able to get a Medical RS if he doesn't return this season.

Ochoa could also technically red shirt this season as well if he continues to never play, I believe.
 

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Numbers may move a couple of percentage points over the next couple weeks, but right now we're on pace to lose right about 50% of our minutes played from this season. That is significant. I think it was about 57% from last year to this year. If we were to lose someone like Deloney (not saying we will, but he'd presumably have a degree at the end of this season), that number balloons to almost 63%.

I'd usually save this for the 23-24 Catamount thread (although the last few days this has been the 23-24 Catamount thread; amazing what 8 days off will do to you), but just a quick snapshot of our roster of players who are eligible to return for next season for those who are interested...

*1 YEAR REMAINING
-Aaron Deloney
-Matt Veretto

*2 YEARS REMAINING
-Ileri Ayo-Faleye
-Nick Fiorillo

*3 YEARS REMAINING
-Sam Alamutu
-TJ Hurley
-Jorge Ochoa
-Perry Smith
-Michel Ndayishimiye (Walk-On)

*4 YEARS REMAINING
-Seth Joba
-Jackson Skipper

-3 Open Scholarships

I figured this was a better way of classifying guys right now, especially as we all still work through the last vestiges of the Covid year.
I'd expect those top four guys to get 25+ minutes - maybe 20 for IAF. It's also looking like Hurley will start next year (probably another 25 minutes there), barring a transfer/freshman guard that takes the spot away from him. That leaves 80-100 minutes to players either new to the program, or current players without much of a role. Looking at this makes me realize we are in dire need of guards. Michel is the fourth guard on the roster, and in the AE I think the three guard (and sometimes even four) lineups work well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,157 ·
Does anyone know the latest on Fiorillo? He'd be able to get a Medical RS if he doesn't return this season.

Ochoa could also technically red shirt this season as well if he continues to never play, I believe.
I've been looking all over for the current rules regarding redshirting, but without diving deep into NCAA rule books I didn't find a quick and easy summation. But from what I can recall, if an injured player plays less than 30% of the team's games, he can receive a medical redshirt (which, if Fiorillo doesn't play another game this year, he would fall under the threshold). However, he would have to go through the formality of applying for a waiver, as he has already used a redshirt season (2019-20). When subtracting the 20-21 season from the equation entirely, the "5 years to play 4" rule still applies. He'd need a 6th year...which in his case, would actually be a 7th year!

As for Ochoa, my understanding (emphasis on understanding) of the rule is that this year is burned for him. Unless there is some kind of medical reason precluding him from playing additional games (which by any known account, there isn't), if you play at all that's it. I won't link the whole article, but I saw that referenced a year ago in a piece on The Athletic about how teams were trying to get waivers to use RS guys in extreme Covid situations in order to successfully play scheduled games.

I also saw somewhere reference to hoops possibly adopting something akin to what college football has now: a RS rule that allows you to play a specific number of games (in the case of football, 4) while maintaining a redshirt. Kind of a "test drive" policy. But I didn't find anywhere where that had actually been enacted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,158 ·

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Preview for tomorrow's game, with injury updates.


10-second version:

Sullivan: Good
Hurley: Probably good
Fiorillo: Still uncertain
Fiorillo is not coming back this year, given how the last statement by Becker sounds. "He's going to try and do everything in his power to come back this season,"
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,160 · (Edited)
Fiorillo is not coming back this year, given how the last statement by Becker sounds. "He's going to try and do everything in his power to come back this season,"
I'm willing to take the statement at face value. He's trying to get back for this season. From today, there's still a minimum of 44 days left in the season. When there's no benefit for either side to save the year for him, you're going to try to get back even if it's for the very last game.

But I would set zero expectations on how effective he'd be upon any sort of return.
 
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