[SienaTony]

Event will be billed as MAAC challenge or something along those lines, key will be getting decent teams from other conferences involved. If event is successful MAAC will hold it every year, for example year after next it could be at Bridgeport, With FF and Iona involved. Maybe Buffalo and the SBA. etc

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=463837&category=SPORTS&newsdate=3/23/2006

 

[Hoops131]

I like the concept, plus it's a chance to get a 4 game guarantee on the schedule...You could play a 31 game season (including the conference tournament game).

The problem is I doubt you'd be able to get a Big East team or a good A-10 team, because that would mean playing a road game against a mid-major, and also playing lower RPI games on a neutral floor. They tend to want to play those teams at home. But if they can get some of them to join, then it has some potential.

 

[Go Jaspers]

Event will be billed as MAAC challenge or something along those lines, key will be getting decent teams from other conferences involved. If event is successful MAAC will hold it every year, for example year after next it could be at Bridgeport, With FF and Iona involved. Maybe Buffalo and the SBA. etc

http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=463837&category=SPORTS&newsdate=3/23/2006

The article references other possible leagues that may be involved as the CAA, Ivy, Patriot and the NEC. The CAA is fine, but do we want to be loading our schedules with more RPI-killing games with the Ivies, Patriot and NEC? Maybe a better approach is to try to take a page out the MVC's playbook and play more mid-major teams. Something involving the MAAC, CAA, A-10 and another conference makes more sense to me.

 

[Ken_Z]

The article references other possible leagues that may be involved as the CAA, Ivy, Patriot and the NEC. The CAA is fine, but do we want to be loading our schedules with more RPI-killing games with the Ivies, Patriot and NEC? Maybe a better approach is to try to take a page out the MVC's playbook and play more mid-major teams. Something involving the MAAC, CAA, A-10 and another conference makes more sense to me.

so the MAAC is too good for the Ivies, Patriot and NEC. don't you think the CAA, A10, etc. would feel the same about the MAAC?

on another topic, i am willing to wager that the Patriot League will be on par with (or surpass) the MAAC within a few years. would be interested in reactions to that statement from MAAC fans :bsmile:

 

[SienaTony]

Sorry aint gonna happen. Bucknell is fine the last few years and HC is a strong program, but your drinking some funny kool aid if you think Colgate, Army or Navy will be decent programs. I know the addition of scholarships will help some patriot league teams, but remember the patriot league was created to keep costs down. Interest in your league is minimal as evidenced by the dismal attendance figures ..522 fans a game at Colgate, 979 at Army,1400 at LEHIGH. Bucknell and HC are decent programs the rest of the league is dreck.

The PL is all about cost containment.

I do however agree with you that the MAAC is in no position to turn its nose up to anyone

On a side note maybe Ryder would be better off in the PL... a certain RumpRiding Raver says they are superior academically.. what do you think Ryder for the PL!!

 

[Stagophile]

so the MAAC is too good for the Ivies, Patriot and NEC. don't you think the CAA, A10, etc. would feel the same about the MAAC?

on another topic, i am willing to wager that the Patriot League will be on par with (or surpass) the MAAC within a few years. would be interested in reactions to that statement from MAAC fans :bsmile:

Bucknell and Holy Cross...yes!

Patriot League top to bottom...not a chance! There are only so many D1 basketball players with 1300 SATs to go around unless the Patriot League is prepared to compromise on academics. (then again it seem like Lehigh is prepared to compromise). Plus there are still only four scholarship schools in the Patriot League (BU, HC, LU and AU). And AU is in a very difficult situation in the DC market for recruits and media attention given all the other major basketball programs.

 

[Ken_Z]

Sorry aint gonna happen. Bucknell is fine the last few years and HC is a strong program, but your drinking some funny kool aid if you think Colgate, Army or Navy will be decent programs. I know the addition of scholarships will help some patriot league teams, but remember the patriot league was created to keep costs down. Interest in your league is minimal as evidenced by the dismal attendance figures ..522 fans a game at Colgate, 979 at Army,1400 at LEHIGH. Bucknell and HC are decent programs the rest of the league is dreck.

The PL is all about cost containment.

the kool aid is tasting pretty good these days. the world and the PL are changing. academics will not be sacrificed, but the new generation of Presidents see athletics as both compatible with strong academics and as an effective approach to promoting the schools name.

Lafayette has finally jumped on the scholarship train. Navy and Army obviously have their own deal, but the other six schools are all now offering merit scholarships for hoops. as far as cost containment, PL schools will not suddenly go hog wild and shift a large percentage of dollars to athletics, but there are a lot more dollars to utilize. most PL endowments are significantly larger than the highest MAAC amount (just saw that endowment post somewhere).

On a side note maybe Ryder would be better off in the PL... a certain RumpRiding Raver says they are superior academically.. what do you think Ryder for the PL!!

PL expansion. actually, this is a priority for the league, but football will play a big role in this. i also don't see this happening for a few years. geography also matters to try and balance it a bit for HC. if Fairfield kept football they would be a candidate. i think Marist should be a candidate if they could commit sufficient dollars to football, but other PLers disagree with me on that one. Rider, I am quite happy to have Bucknell maintain a home and home hoops arrangement with them, but don't see them in the PL.

back to the original topic, and another swig of kool aid, I see the PL moving up to the 17-18th rated territory next year: Bucknell down some, but the other schools should all be as good as or better than this year. then moving into the mid-teens the next year. my guess is that puts us right into MAAC territory.

 

[MTS]

Bucknell and Holy Cross carry the Patriot league much like Penn and Princeton carry the Ivy. A league needs more than two teams to be a big success. The MAAC is hardly the ACC but it is clearly a better league then the Patriot league. However, Bucknell has been awesome the last two years and I envy what they've done hope the MAAC and Siena can accomplish it someday soon.

 

[Ken_Z]

Bucknell and Holy Cross carry the Patriot league much like Penn and Princeton carry the Ivy. A league needs more than two teams to be a big success. The MAAC is hardly the ACC but it is clearly a better league then the Patriot league.

what the kool aid does is provide the ability to vision the future rather than assume what is today shall be tomorrow. Lafayette has a good hoops history and a good coach with connections. they will elevate their level of play quickly with scholarships. admittedly, it is much more difficult to make an argument for Army and Navy, but they can improve. Colgate has no history and frankly underperformed relative to talent the last few years. American and Lehigh both have some young talent and are recruiting better talent these days.

i did not expect agreement, and sometimes the kool aid just makes you delusional. i have made my prediction and we will have to wait and see how it plays out. in any case it provides a bit of off season entertainment.

 

[Hoops131]

Lafayette has a good hoops history and a good coach with connections. they will elevate their level of play quickly with scholarships.

Does this mean Lafayette has finally decided to offer scholarships?

It wasn't fair to O'Hanlon to try to recruit in a scholly league w/ out schollies. I know they were having some sort of summitt.

 

[Ken_Z]

Does this mean Lafayette has finally decided to offer scholarships?

yes. it is official and effective for this years recruiting cycle. they actually lost out on at least one very good player who signed with HC in the fall. there are still good players available and i expect O'Hanlon will pick up a few of them this year.

 

[Go Jaspers]

so the MAAC is too good for the Ivies, Patriot and NEC. don't you think the CAA, A10, etc. would feel the same about the MAAC?

on another topic, i am willing to wager that the Patriot League will be on par with (or surpass) the MAAC within a few years. would be interested in reactions to that statement from MAAC fans :bsmile:

It is not about being too good for certain conferences. It is about how does this benefit the MAAC.
Most years the MAAC is rated above the three conferences you mention. At one time the MAAC had a goal for all of its programs to play five "up" games annually, meaning schedule five games against teams in higher rated conferences.

Given the fact that many teams in the MAAC have natural rivalry games against teams from these conferences (and I am not advocating these games be dropped), I don't think it makes sense for us as a conference to play more of these games. We should be strengthing our OOC as a group. That is my point.

Enjoy Bucknell's success while it lasts, the world of mid-major hoops runs in cycles and it is hard to sustain the type of success Bucknell has enjoyed for the last few years for an extended period of time.

 

[Ken_Z]

It is not about being too good for certain conferences. It is about how does this benefit the MAAC.
Most years the MAAC is rated above the three conferences you mention. At one time the MAAC had a goal for all of its programs to play five "up" games annually, meaning schedule five games against teams in higher rated conferences.

okay, then translate my question to how would this benefit the CAA or A10? your asking them to play multiple away games against MAAC teams. it just strikes me that this is more downside to them than what you are rejecting as no benefit for MAAC teams.

Enjoy Bucknell's success while it lasts, the world of mid-major hoops runs in cycles and it is hard to sustain the type of success Bucknell has enjoyed for the last few years for an extended period of time.

absolutely right. the last two years have been incredible and i have enjoyed it tremendously. while there are reasons for optimism, next year it will be a battle to win the PL. while i will argue and believe that the PL is on the upswing, there clearly is a ceiling on how far things can go and Bucknell and HC will not dominate the league forever.

 

[Emaline]

re: PL expansion... I know the HC administration has at least had private talks with both Fairfield and Loyola about joining. I don't think it got very far, but it was at least out there for a while.

 

[Stagophile]

re: PL expansion... I know the HC administration has at least had private talks with both Fairfield and Loyola about joining. I don't think it got very far, but it was at least out there for a while.

Interesting...can you reveal your source? Fairfield is in a very odd position. We really don't fit in the MAAC as evident by the lack of a natural rival, lack of cross-applications with other MAAC schools and the general disdain for Fairfield amongst most other MAAC schools. :biggrin: Loyola is really the only other MAAC school where we appear to share a similar athletic/academic/financial profile and more and more cross-applications, however, it would be a stretch to state that we are natural rivals. And we really don't fit in the Patriot League except for our similarity with Holy Cross. But if we were in a full scholarship Patriot League with Holy Cross, Loyola and maybe Fordham where the school profiles fit and many students apply to each school, this might be a better fit for Fairfield. While the academic and financial profile of the Patriot League is appealing, without full scholarships and full financial committments to basketball at all schools this expanded Patriot League would be a step back from the MAAC.

 

[Ken_Z]

And we really don't fit in the Patriot League except for our similarity with Holy Cross. But if we were in a full scholarship Patriot League with Holy Cross, Loyola and maybe Fordham where the school profiles fit and many students apply to each school, this might be a better fit for Fairfield. While the academic and financial profile of the Patriot League is appealing, without full scholarships and full financial committments to basketball at all schools this expanded Patriot League would be a step back from the MAAC.

so given all PL schools DO offer basketball scholarships (except Army and Navy which obviously have a different offer, fully paid in exchange for five years), which league would you pick if the PL picked up one other school along with an offer to Fairfield? would the other school be the determining factor?

 

[Stagophile]

so given all PL schools DO offer basketball scholarships (except Army and Navy which obviously have a different offer, fully paid in exchange for five years), which league would you pick if the PL picked up one other school along with an offer to Fairfield? would the other school be the determining factor?

I like the fact that the PL does offer full scholarships now and over the long term this can only help!!! I am still curious about financial committments though in terms of paying coaches and upgrading facilities. Does everybody in the PL have plans to replicate what BU has done facility-wise?

In terms of choosing leagues, I would probably choose the PL if the deal included either LC or FU. Adding one of these schools would be determinative in order to bring some balance to the league profile. Having three or four Jesuit schools is more appealing to me in terms of natural rivalries and commonalities between schools (i.e., vision, mission, student body, alumni).

But what I find most appealing is when you look beyond basketball to soccer and lacrosse. Soccer and lacrosse are the two other marquee sports at both Fairfield and Loyola whose programs have both garnered national recognition. Adding FU and LC would instantly strengthened the PL RPI for both sports making the story even more appealing.

In terms of soccer, going to the PL would be a postive step up from MAAC soccer. Most MAAC schools are spending very little money on the sport which is reflected in the MAAC being the 23rd out of 24th RPI ranked DI league last year. I believe the PL was 13th or 14th.

And in terms of lacrosse, going to the PL from the ECAC would be a side step in the short-term. However, over the long-term I don't think an ECAC lacrosse league with the likes of Fairfield and Loyola competing against Penn State, Rutgers and even Georgetown will last. As more schools add lacrosse, I see these ECAC schools joining forces with a Big Ten or Big East lacrosse league. This is a long ways off, but it will eventually happen as the sport continues to grow and other schools begin to recognize the revenue potential. Fairfield and Loyola moving to PL lacrosse would be a more natural fit and more secure in the long run.

 

[Long Island Greyhound]

Here's a thought.

Bring Holy Cross and Bucknell into the MAAC - making it a 12 team conference.

Or better yet, bring in Holy Cross. Kick out Rider.

 

[Stagophile]

Here's a thought.

Bring Holy Cross and Bucknell into the MAAC - making it a 12 team conference.

Or better yet, bring in Holy Cross. Kick out Rider.

Good thought, but Holy Cross and Bucknell will never leave due to PL Football. Further, the ties between Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette are very strong.