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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
* First we like Donyell Marshall so much that we won't trade him to get the #4 pick, Dwyane Wade. Even though Kirk Hinrich has been very good, Wade would have been awesome and on the whole I like him better as a player. But the real point is not that but the fact that we were willing to give away Marshall only a few months later to get rid of Rose. That's a pretty major talent flip flop.

* We spend all summer doggedly hanging on to Rose, then we try like mad to trade him once the season starts. If Paxson had really resolved to do this sooner, or guessed/recognized had much Rose had declined, he should have dumped him sooner. Doing so might have allowed us to keep Marshall and we also would have looked at younger players with our free agent money.

* The Bulls get a $1.7M free agent injury exception for JWill and don't bother to spend it. Perhaps this is ownership penny pinching.

* The Bulls rebuild their offense to feature Eddy Curry and insist he's going to average 20 and 10 even while they watch him baloon up a good 25lbs or so of fat in the off season.

* This mistake is compounded when the Bulls react to the failure of Curry to become a consistent offensive option by trading away Rose and Marshall, their two most consistent offensive options. The new players aren't good offensive players and help mainly by plugging the hole filled by the loss of the out-of-shape Tyson Chandler.

* The Bulls cut Trent Hassell to keep Linton Johnson

* The Bulls allow the Raptors to shift Chris Jeffries onto them as part of the Rose trade. Not a huge problem, but a wasted roster spot and a $1M cap hit for the next two seasons that no one will want.

* Around the time of the trade, leaks about what the Bulls are thinking run rampant, causing embarrassment. Only last week this perhaps occurs again when Pistons GM Joe Dumars appears irritated that Chicago sources run with a Bulls-Pistons trade rumor.

* Paxson makes ham-fisted and half-hearted remarks that make it clear he has little interest in re-signing Jamal Crawford, thus further battering his trade value and making it more likely the Bulls get nothing for him.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!

* Around the time of the trade, leaks about what the Bulls are thinking run rampant, causing embarrassment. Only last week this perhaps occurs again when Pistons GM Joe Dumars appears irritated that Chicago sources run with a Bulls-Pistons trade rumor.
Uhhh..dude..the Dtroit free press leaked the rumored trade first:rolleyes:
 

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Making Krause look good.

You forget about signing Pippen to a 2 year deal for the full MLE.

His major mistake was misjudging the level of improvement in th 3 C's. His moves were based on this happening, and when it didn't, we were in a hole.
 

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Nice list MikeDC. But considering the context from this summer, everyone and their mother wanted the Bulls to stay prettymuch intact going into this season. Remember how everyone said we only needed 'minor tweaking' to the roster? To expect a major roster overhaul this summer would have seemed foolish, especially after the Bulls finished the year strong.

So Pax brought back the same coach and essentially the same team. He signed Pippen and Gill to surround the kids. But a funny thing happened. It didn't work. Jalen, our team's best player, regressed when many thought (including Pippen) he'd be an All-Star. BC's coaching style rang hollow and alienated his players. Curry didn't step up his game, Chandler got hurt.

Some of this blame goes to Paxson, though certainly not all of it. It didn't work and I credit Pax for bringing in Skiles and making some changes to the roster.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
His major mistake was misjudging the level of improvement in th 3 C's. His moves were based on this happening, and when it didn't, we were in a hole.
This was Krause's modus operandi for 3 years. EVery move he made was upon the premise that these 3 would be stars, Curry and Chandler would dominate the East, etc, etc. Maybe Pax was drinking the kool-aid this summer, but you can't deny that it was Krause's brew.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!
Making Krause look good.

You forget about signing Pippen to a 2 year deal for the full MLE.

His major mistake was misjudging the level of improvement in th 3 C's. His moves were based on this happening, and when it didn't, we were in a hole.
I am not so sure that was a mistake by Paxson. This is mans game. Certain things are expected of you when you sign with a team. That includes working on your conditioning and your game on your own time. Facilities and coaches are there for the asking. It should not be up to a GM to hold their hands.

All three came into the season not ready to play. Crawford was the closest to being ready. Chandler broke down even before the season started.

His moves based on improvement from all three C's? The raptor trade was made to improve all three C's. Give Curry someone to bang with. By getting JYD, allows Chandler time to get in shape. And trading Rose gave Jamal, free reign to see exactly what John had in Crawford.

Of course this is just my very humble opinion. I am sure many will disagree.
 

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As for trading Rose before the season began. Wasn'r Rose on the block all last year and summer? Seems to me if trading Jalen was going to be an easy thing, John would have done it earlier. I neve saw many teams busting down the door to trade for Rose.

Now, Marshall? That is a different story and I do agree John made a mistake by not trading Marshall for Murray and the pick. Why? He traded him to Toronto anyway!! We do miss Donyell. He stretched the offense with his perimeter shooting and could play all three spots, (Center, PF and SF) That is one player that got away.
 

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The worst mistake of the offseason was not getting Posey.

Between Maggette, Pippen, Posey, and Newble....I wanted Posey the most.

We could have got Posey for the MLE and we passed him up.

:eek:

Good Job Pax!

:verysad:
 

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Originally posted by <b>superdave</b>!
Nice list MikeDC. But considering the context from this summer, everyone and their mother wanted the Bulls to stay prettymuch intact going into this season. Remember how everyone said we only needed 'minor tweaking' to the roster? To expect a major roster overhaul this summer would have seemed foolish, especially after the Bulls finished the year strong.

So Pax brought back the same coach and essentially the same team. He signed Pippen and Gill to surround the kids. But a funny thing happened. It didn't work. Jalen, our team's best player, regressed when many thought (including Pippen) he'd be an All-Star. BC's coaching style rang hollow and alienated his players. Curry didn't step up his game, Chandler got hurt.

Some of this blame goes to Paxson, though certainly not all of it. It didn't work and I credit Pax for bringing in Skiles and making some changes to the roster.
You make some good points. At the time I liked the Pippen signing. Veteran leadership that Rose didn't give us. Portland's record when he played was very good. The problem was giving Pippen a 2 year deal. It probably won't hurt us anyway, but when a guy like Posey could've been signed, oh well. Gill has been good.

Paxson does deserve some blame. So does Krause. So does the team.

tbf, We all expected improvement, but realistcially, the 3C's were never going to take us to the playoffs. I actually could be wrong when I say Paxson misjudged the level of improvement these guys would make, and how it would translate into wins because Walker would rumored to be on his way before JWill's injury.

Not many high schoolers in their 3rd year carry the team offensively. McGrady didn't, he had Carter. Kobe didn't, he had Shaq. Garnett was the closest, bad Gugliotta averaged more points and Marbury was big too. Expecting Curry to do it was unrealistic, from that perspective.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!


You make some good points. At the time I liked the Pippen signing. Veteran leadership that Rose didn't give us. Portland's record when he played was very good. The problem was giving Pippen a 2 year deal. It probably won't hurt us anyway, but when a guy like Posey could've been signed, oh well. Gill has been good.

Paxson does deserve some blame. So does Krause. So does the team.

tbf, We all expected improvement, but realistcially, the 3C's were never going to take us to the playoffs. I actually could be wrong when I say Paxson misjudged the level of improvement these guys would make, and how it would translate into wins because Walker would rumored to be on his way before JWill's injury.

Not many high schoolers in their 3rd year carry the team offensively. McGrady didn't, he had Carter. Kobe didn't, he had Shaq. Garnett was the closest, bad Gugliotta averaged more points and Marbury was big too. Expecting Curry to do it was unrealistic, from that perspective.
Maybe so. You bring up some good points. But they had people here that was suppose to help them. Added Gill and Pippen to a team that won 30 games last season. So all three C's were suppose to at the very least, start where they left off. They didn't Not only that but Rose regressed. Rose is not Paxsons fault. (I never said you said it was, just making a remark)

John is not free of blame. I wanted pippen, but in hind site, Posey would have been much better. But in all honesty fans of every team can say that about their GM! When a fan looks back and ponders over what the GM should have done, there is always moves a GM should have done or should not have done.

Somewhere in all of this, the players need to be at fault. They get paid to play and keep their bodies finally tuned.
 

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Originally posted by <b>truebluefan</b>!


Maybe so. You bring up some good points. But they had people here that was suppose to help them. Added Gill and Pippen to a team that won 30 games last season. So all three C's were suppose to at the very least, start where they left off. They didn't Not only that but Rose regressed. Rose is not Paxsons fault. (I never said you said it was, just making a remark)

John is not free of blame. I wanted pippen, but in hind site, Posey would have been much better. But in all honesty fans of every team can say that about their GM! When a fan looks back and ponders over what the GM should have done, there is always moves a GM should have done or should not have done.

Somewhere in all of this, the players need to be at fault. They get paid to play and keep their bodies finally tuned.
I agree. The players didn't come ready (particularly Chandler and Curry, for whatever reason).

Regarding Hassell, while he was cut for Johnson, it in the end probably wasn't between him and Johnson, but him and Mason, and Mason outplayed him the preseason. Either way, both Johnson and Mason are now gone. But with Gill here (who was an upgrade on Hassell), and JC at SG, I don't know how much time he would've got. Hassell has definitely been helped by playing with better players. It's that simple, so it would be unlikely he would play that well for the Bulls.
 

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As far as the Pippen signing goes that was maybe Pax's biggest mistake.The Bulls had weaknesses outside of the 3c's regardless of how you add it up EVERYONE knew we needed a defensive 3 that could be counted on for 82 games,a solid backup at center to help on the defensive glass and a 3pt shooter .

Pax signing Pip replaced our sf made of glass(erob) with one made of straw(pip) .He took our weakest position and made it even weaker with the removal of Hassell and Hoiberg .Rose goes down in preseason ,Pip hardly ever plays and yet he still goes down and we are right back where we started last year with No sf .

Some may think that adding Pip helped removed a shroud left over the franchise from the dynasty years but It hasnt and I really think that the only way to remove it is to WIN.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Benny the Bull</b>!


I agree. The players didn't come ready (particularly Chandler and Curry, for whatever reason).

Regarding Hassell, while he was cut for Johnson, it in the end probably wasn't between him and Johnson, but him and Mason, and Mason outplayed him the preseason. Either way, both Johnson and Mason are now gone. But with Gill here (who was an upgrade on Hassell), and JC at SG, I don't know how much time he would've got. Hassell has definitely been helped by playing with better players. It's that simple, so it would be unlikely he would play that well for the Bulls.
I have said it more than once on this board that Mason JR had a very strong summer league!! Hassell played strong the first 4 games then dissappeared. Mason was the better of two, not by much though. So when people say Johnson was the reason why hassell was cut, that is not exactly correct. Mason JR. won a spot on the team first. Then, Johnson came into came and turned some heads.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Mikedc</b>!

* Paxson makes ham-fisted and half-hearted remarks that make it clear he has little interest in re-signing Jamal Crawford, thus further battering his trade value and making it more likely the Bulls get nothing for him.
This is the crap that I find most disconcerting. One day he is openly remaking whether Eddy will ever have enough heart to make it in the league, the next day he is calling him an untouchable...wtf? If I was a player, this material would cause me to loose respect for my GM and francise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I kind of pointed it out in the other thread, but I'll say it again here because it seems one criticism of my posts is that I'm not recognizing the fact that "everyone" wanted few changes to be made and that the "conventional wisdom" was in many cases that which Paxson followed.

And it's true that he's had some successes ( to name a few- Kirk, Dupree, Skiles, IMO), but I also think those were pretty easy (or at least not high-risk moves).

My main point, however, is that I don't give a lot of credit for following the consensus , and I don't give a lot of credit for successfully making what I'd consider to be easy or low-risk decisions.

Good GMs are good not because of this, but because they successfully make the tough decisions and successfully forsee things that others don't. They judge talent better. They see players that other teams aren't using and scoop them up. They see players their own players and their futures for what they really are.

Just like players shouldn't get all of this nonsensical praise for having a "great" game in a double-digit loss, a GM who is consistently behind the curve in his decision-making is anything but great. If we could just as well replace him with a polling of "conventional wisdom", then he appears to me to be pretty mediocre.

Bonus points for anyone who successfully clicks on the link and tells us what consensus is all about :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: Re: A "short" list of Paxson's mistakes

Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!


This is the crap that I find most disconcerting. One day he is openly remaking whether Eddy will ever have enough heart to make it in the league, the next day he is calling him an untouchable...wtf? If I was a player, this material would cause me to loose respect for my GM and francise.
Me too. It seems evidence to me that he really has no confidence or continuity in his own judgements. One day he won't give up Marshall, the next he will. One day he's not shopping Rose, the next he's desperate to dump him (and if he was desperate to move him all along, then why did he sign guys it only made sense to sign if Rose was here?). One day Curry's a bum, the next he's a god.

Look, all of those opinions are fine here... because we're on the outside looking in. But from the inside, if you can't make a judgement and stick to it, right or wrong, you're screwed. No consistent plan will ever emerge if the guy in charge can't come to consistent conclusions.

It all gives the appearance that he's desperate and in over his head.
 

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and why is he even going to the media with this material to begin with. The old maxim "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" holds especially true for GM's. All you're going to accomplish is lowering your teams trade value.
 

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Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
and why is he even going to the media with this material to begin with. The old maxim "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" holds especially true for GM's. All you're going to accomplish is lowering your teams trade value.
Totally agree. Why talk to the media before the trade deadline?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Originally posted by <b>C.C.C.P</b>!
and why is he even going to the media with this material to begin with. The old maxim "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" holds especially true for GM's. All you're going to accomplish is lowering your teams trade value.
You reminded me of an additional mistake. Not only is this especially true for all GMs, it ought to be doubly true for Pax who made such a big stink earlier in the season about Players keeping things "in house" and not taking their gripes with to the media.

Not exactly a way to go about getting respect from your employees or your peers.
 

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Hey Fellas....

I am kind of late getting in on this thread but I do want to comment on previous posts...

As to Paxson's critical comments about Curry, Crawford.... etc.,

I think Paxson is trying to ratchet up the level of urgency and intesity in this organization. Up to this year, Curry and Crawford had gotten the benefit of the doubt on things relating to their conditioning, strength, and overall committment to the organization's success. If they were inconcistant everyone simply said, "oh, they are still kids". That protected them from the bottom line existing in this league, which is winning and succeeding. I believe that Paxson moved Rose b/c he was to a certain extent, their safety blanket. He was the #1 option on offense (even though he is no better than a #2 option on any decent team). He was their best "creator" for others, he was the guy the media asked the tough questions to. Paxson moved him as a message to these guys (including CHandler) that Basketball Grade school was over. Time to truly play at the varsity level, 82 games NBA style. Well, EVERYONE of the young guys, looked like deer in headlights...when the team was put in their hands...PRESSURE IS A b****.!

...Crawford loved the extra shots and freedom but some realized his game wasnt as "pretty" as he thought (shot isnt true, doesnt move well without the ball, doenst penetrate enough to create consistently for his teammates, too out of control with his dribbling)....Curry thought he could just show up in Rucker Park shape and do his thing. He wanted minutes, he got it...he also had a total of 3 rebounds the first 3 games of this season...he looked weak and winded EVEN BEFORE THE KNEE BRUISE! Only lately is he playing quicker and stronger after putting extra time to get in shape before and after practice...Chandler simply needs to improve his overall functional strangth.

I believe Paxson has made less than glowing comments about Curry and Crawford as a means to challenge and motivate them to prove him wrong...

As to him showing COMMITMENT TO THEM...hey I think the kids need to give it up more for this team if they want to win games...Paxson and the Bulls will keep these guys under contract until they dont want them anymore. This is business...I dont think this has happened. I think Paxson will let Crawford test the market and match multiyear deal at 5-6.5 million per. I dont see anyone offering more...if they do..they can have him. Curry is a Bull for at least 2 years and I see Paxson matching or bettering any offer he gets in FA nest year.

Bottom line, the criticism by Paxson of CUrry and Crawford is his perogitive as GM... This organization's success is in their hands now...they have C- grades to this point. Lets see if they can improve the team the rest of the way and next year.
 
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