Professional and College Basketball Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've posted this idea before, but i did it on the Kings forum, so it didn't get a whole lotta views

Indiana trades: SF Ron Artest (13.2 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.3 apg in 29.8 minutes)
SG Reggie Miller (16.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 3.2 apg in 36.6 minutes)

Indiana receives: PF Lawrence Funderburke (4.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.9 minutes)
SF Predrag Stojakovic (21.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.3 minutes)
SG Doug Christie (12.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 34.5 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +8.2 ppg, +5.7 rpg, and +1.8 apg.

Sacramento trades: PF Lawrence Funderburke (4.7 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.9 minutes)
SF Predrag Stojakovic (21.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.3 minutes)
SG Doug Christie (12.0 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 4.2 apg in 34.5 minutes)

Sacramento receives: SF Ron Artest (13.2 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2.3 apg in 55 games)
SG Reggie Miller (16.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 3.2 apg in 79 games)
Change in team outlook: -8.2 ppg, -5.7 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Sacramento-This move, at first glance, almost looks like a bad move for Sacto. They're giving up young for old. However, they are getting a bit younger and more athletic at the 3 with Artest (not to mention the fact that he plays Kobe better than anyone). Some might be concerned, however, about giving up Peja for Miller. On paper it does weaken them in the long run, but let me ask you this- what's more important than winning a title in basketball? Not to say that they won't win one if they don't do this move, just that Reggie would almost surely put them over the top this year; plus, he'd have a great influence on the team's other players. We all know what winning a title does for a team's players in terms of confidence and poise- look at the LAker role players or the Bulls role players back in the day. Bibby is great in crunch time, but the other guys need that championship swagger to become winners. When Reggie does finally retire, the other Kings players will have the confidence of being champions( and Shaq might be retired by then anyway). Nobody likes giving up old for young, but I'd do it if a title was involved. Plus, they're getting the league's best Kobe-botherer.

Indy-Before all you Pacer fans go nuts at the sacriledge of trading the franchise's most beloved player, try to look at this practically: Reggie has been searching for a title his whole career, he's getting old now, and he's not gonna get that shot with Indy. I'm sure he wouldn't mind spending his last years mentoring the kids in Indy, but a great competitor like that has got to burn for a title deep down. I'm sure he'd see the move as a reward rather than a punishment for that reason, and maybe he can come back in five years or so as a coach (Isaiah won't last that long). But for now, not only would this move give Reggie one last shot at a title, the Pacers are getting a rising star in Peja and the ideal mentor for Harrington-a cerebral defender who can show Al how to harness his huge defensive potential, and will be on his way out by the time he's ready for the majority of the minutes.
Here's their depth chart:
PG-Tisley, Brewer, Jones (combo)
SG-Harrington, Christie, Mercer (for now)
SF-Peja, Bender, Croshere
PF-O'Neal, Funderburke
c-Miller
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,909 Posts
I dunno, while it may be good for the short term success of the Kings, don't you think they are working towards a long term dynasty type of team?

This trade would set them back significantly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
This trade really looks bad for Sac at first glance. At second glance? It's still a bad move. Trade Christie for Artest? Sac already have Hedo, although not as good defensively as Artest at this moment, he's more polish at offensive end and can grow as a defensive stopper too. Reggie for Peja? Not good. That only reason to do this is for Reggie to take shots at clucth time. Sac don't need that, they already have Bibby to shoot those from perimeter. They may need some low-post scoring during crunch time but not another perimeter scorer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,580 Posts
No, we need Christie's defense. Reggie Miller is near the end of his prime anyway, while Peja will still be shining for years to come.
 

·
Oladipo for the people
Joined
·
48,150 Posts
Artest is a better defender than Christie, plain and simple. Neither team would do this trade anyways. And Louie, Im a die hard Pacer fan and even Ill admit there no way Harrington can play the 2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I dunno, i think they would. Sacto (presumably) gets a title and Indy gets young for old, and forces the young guys to develope into clutch players without Reggie to bail them out. Artest is a way better defender than Christie, is younger, and has offensive potential. I know this move is bad for Sacto long term ON PAPER, but like i said, winning a title makes a team better just by virtue of the confidence and pride it instills. The team expects to win, not hopes. They may or may not get a title as currently constructed-it'll be tough with one great clutch player as opposed to two, but it could still happen. Reggie would make them way more dangerous to L.A. however, and Artest give them the best man-to-man defender anywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
I haven't seen Artest play D, but I have seen Christie, and he's gotta be one of the best. I agree with the contention that having Miller for a couple years could be better than having Peja. It's not guaranteed that Peja will develop into a clutch shooter--although he's got all the tools to be as good as Reggie in crunch time. The bottom line is that if Miller was on the Kings last year, instead of Peja, they beat the Lakers.
 

·
Beware of Elbows
Joined
·
18,500 Posts
This wouldn't make Sacramento better...it would probably make them worse:yes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
how does miller or artest help them deal with shaq? the only trade that would garuntee them the championship woul dbe a trade for shaq
 

·
Oladipo for the people
Joined
·
48,150 Posts
Make the team worse? Are you kidding me? Reggie is the 17th highest scorer in the HISTORY of the NBA. He is also the most prolific 3 point threat in NBA history, look it up if you want. Saying that having this guy would not improve ANY team is just rediculous. The guy took the Nets to double overtime with a shot from pretty much half court and a sick dunk. Hey X, you need to come to terms with the fact that there is more than 1 team in the league.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,580 Posts
So what if Reggie is 17th in high score? Karl Malone is #3 or something, and MJ is right up there too, but they wouldn't be of any help to Sac. These players are past their prime, and Reggie will be joining them pretty soon. Reggie may be better than Peja now, but in the long run, Peja would be more beneficial.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
reggie better than peja? are you joking? peja 21.2 pts 5.3 boards 2.5 assists .416 3pt%. Reggie 16.5 pts 2.8 boards 3.2 assist .406 3pt%. and peja is only getting better.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
58,028 Posts
I would build for the long run, the second Shaq steps off the court, an older and more mature Kings could run off 2 or 3 championships.

-Petey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Why wait- the Kings almost won this year. Forget about dealing with Shaq, Vlade does it better than anyone. You can't stop him, but you can beat his team. It can be done. As great as the are, they have weaknesses like everyone else, one of those being depth. For those who have never seen Artest defend Kobe, he can play him better than anyone else in the league by a wide margin, IMO. You can't stop great players like Shaq and Kobe, but Vlade and Artest are the two players in this league who are best equipped to limit them. With Bibb, Reggie, Webber, Hedo and Jackson to supply the offense, I really can't see the Lakers surviving a series against them. It'd go 7 and be a hell of a series, but I'd be betting on the Kings.
reggie better than peja? are you joking? peja 21.2 pts 5.3 boards 2.5 assists .416 3pt%. Reggie 16.5 pts 2.8 boards 3.2 assist .406 3pt%. and peja is only getting better.
Reggie is better than Peja when it counts, and when you're going for a title that's all that matters.
So what if Reggie is 17th in high score? Karl Malone is #3 or something, and MJ is right up there too, but they wouldn't be of any help to Sac. These players are past their prime, and Reggie will be joining them pretty soon. Reggie may be better than Peja now, but in the long run, Peja would be more beneficial.
Theres no way that MJ or Reggie wouldn't be better for Sac than Peja. Both are old, but are still among the top 5 clutch players ever, and are easily capable coming up big when it counts, comething Peja failed to do. Either of these guys, paired with Bibby, would form the ultimate clutch backcourt.
I really don't think this move would weaken Sacto that much long term. Hedo's not gonna spend his whole career as a bakup-if they trade Peja, they'd be able to keep him when his contract's up. Artest is younger and better than Christie. Even after Reggie and Vlade are gone, this is their lineup chart:
pg-Bibby, Jackson
sg-Artest
sf-Hedo, Wallace
pf-Webber
c-Clark, Pollard
And all these player would have the confidence and winning attitude that championship teams get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,580 Posts
Originally posted by <b>Louie</b>!
Theres no way that MJ or Reggie wouldn't be better for Sac than Peja. Both are old, but are still among the top 5 clutch players ever, and are easily capable coming up big when it counts, comething Peja failed to do. Either of these guys, paired with Bibby, would form the ultimate clutch backcourt.
Okay, I agree with you on almost everything. The Kings is a very deep team. However, have you NOT seen the way Jordan plays? o_0''' The guy is way too old. He can't even dunk no more, and his knees are about to give in. There's no way MJ can play against the Lakers. I watched more Wizards game last season than I have my entire life, and I must say I was unimpressed with MJ. Peja is better than the current MJ, and would be better than the current Reggie in a few years.

I agree Reggie is better than Peja during clutch time... for now, but we're looking long term here. Peja can only improve, and this could be the beginning of a dynasty!
 

·
Oladipo for the people
Joined
·
48,150 Posts
Peja will never even be comparrable to Reggie when it comes to cluth performance. Peja may keep improving, but Reggie has been clutch since he entered the L. Being clutch is not realy something you learn, as it is something thats always been with you. Im not taking anything away from Peja, hes an allstar caliber player. Reggie is one of the greats in basketball history though, and I dont think that should be cast aside so easily.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,420 Posts
Like I said, why you want a great cluth but old and declining perimeter shooter when you already have one very good but young and up-and-coming cluth perimeter shooter? The only reason the Sac acquire Reggie is for him to perform during playoffs, especially during crunch times. That means you gotta put the ball on this guy's hands. Would that make Bibby happy? Would there be any chemistry problem on who should get the ball more? Talk about chemistry, I don't want to mess my team up by trading two starters when the team almost was there. The Kings are not lack in talents, they just need a little bit of luck and experience. With everyone a year older and wiser, I really don't see the benefits of The Kings doing this trade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Not good for Sac.

I think that the path is clear for the Kings now. Shaq is becoming less enthused and less motivated by the month, he isn't going to be playing until December....People need to understand where the Kings and Lakers were at the end of '01 as opposed to '02, two teams heading in opposite directions at an accelerated rate.

As for who is better in the clutch... how many years does Reggie have left at top-notch production, 2 would be generous. The Kings don't have any problems with clutch play, they were just young and inexperienced (and injured if you bring up Peja).

I think your underrating Peja as well. I've made my position known that he's the most underrated player in the league in my opinion and could be a first option kind of guy on a less stacked team. I'd prefer to see other King's named being mentioned in trades and for people to stop referring to his play when he was 60% physically.

I look for the Kings to get over the hump this year without any significant moves. If the Kings are still in this position 2 years from now, then we can start thinking of rectifying the situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,919 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I hope that the Kings can get over the hump w/out a major trade, but I feel that this move would make that far more likely
Like I said, why you want a great cluth but old and declining perimeter shooter when you already have one very good but young and up-and-coming cluth perimeter shooter?
Cause Peja has done nothing to support the idea that he is a clutch shooter at all, and Reggie has proven to be one of the greatest ever at it.
The only reason the Sac acquire Reggie is for him to perform during playoffs, especially during crunch times. That means you gotta put the ball on this guy's hands. Would that make Bibby happy? Would there be any chemistry problem on who should get the ball more?
How do you figure Reggie would screw up the chemistry? If anything, he demands less touches than Peja most of the time. The reason the Kings didn't win last year was the fact that Bibby was the only clutch shooter-no one else stepped up. The addition of Reggie gives them two of the best clutch players in league who also happen to be unselfish and team-oriented.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Cause Peja has done nothing to support the idea that he is a clutch shooter at all

Kings 119 Raps 118 3rd OT
"Stojakovic scored a career-high 39 points, including the game-winning three-pointer in triple overtime, as the Sacramento Kings beat the Toronto Raptors 119-118 Friday night"
http://www.stampeders.com/SlamResults010223/nba_sac_tor-cp.html

Kings 107 Spurs 105 OT
"After Antonio Daniels hit a three-pointer with 54 seconds remaining in overtime to give the Spurs a 105-103 lead, Vlade Divac answered with a layup to tie it.
When Danny Ferry missed a 16-foot jumper with 13.7 seconds left, Peja Stojakovic sealed Sacramento's win with a running jump shot from seven feet with 2.4 seconds left."
http://www.nba.com/games/20010412/SACSAS/recap.html?nav=ArticleList

Kings 110 Mavs 98
"Sacramento saw a 20-point lead cut to four before Mike Bibby scored for a 93-87 lead with 3:25 to go
The Mavericks continued their push in the fourth quarter, but were stymied by the late shooting of Stojakovic.
Peja played great tonight and especially at the end of the game when they needed him," Nowitzki said
Stojakovic scored 32 points, including a pair of key late jumpers, as the Sacramento Kings posted a 110-98 victory over the Dallas Mavericks."
http://www.nba.com/games/20011129/SACDAL/recap.html

Kings 99 Sonics 95
"Stojakovic, who was named to his first All-Star team Tuesday, took over down the stretch to help Sacramento improve to 10-9 on the road this season and 17-7 without Webber.
With the game tied, 89-89, Vin Baker picked up his sixth foul and Vlade Divac sank a pair of free throws with 2:40 left to give Sacramento a two-point lead. But rooke Vladimir Radmanovic hit a 3-pointer 18 seconds later to give Seattle a 92-91 edge.
After Divac made 1-of-2 at the line with 1:29 left to tie the game, Stojakovic hit a 3-pointer with 52 seconds remaining to give the Kings the lead for good.
Following a missed jumper by Radmanovic, Stojakovic calmly nailed a shot from the right baseline to give Sacramento a 97-92 lead with 16 seconds left"
http://www.nba.com/games/20020131/SACSEA/recap.html



Granted, Reggie Miller is one of the most clutch players of all time, but he is 37.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top