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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1st trade - Bulls and Knicks

Bulls trade ERob , Fizer and Dali for Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas

Why for the Bulls

Charlie Ward is a very very good defensive point guard and adds a vet presence at the point. He rarely turns the ballover and whilst not flashy he makes percentage plays. A tough as nails player His contract balances out with ERob's but ends 3 years earlier than ERob's

We clear a space at the 3 to chase Harpring and other preferences we may have to play in that spot.

Thomas is adept at PF and C although he is a bit small for center. Hard defender who is surprisingly effective in the Center spot. Good low post moves on the block and can pick up some of the scoring we lose in Fizer. Seals his man off and will rebound the ball . An excellent vet addition that is surplus with Dice being on board and with Spoon signed long term as well as Othella Harrington likely picking up his option at $2.7M . With Doleac likely to sign on as Center and with Travis Knight playing back up minutes at Center , we give them a big body to work with in Dalibor .

Why for the Knicks

They have no depth at the 2 adn 3 bar Shandon Andersen and ERob's salary should not spook them if they paying Shandon $6M and Howard Eisley $5M. By moving Ward they have a wash with ERob's salary that can provide depth and energy at the 3 spot where they need it . They get a big body to use for fouls in Dalibor and an offensive scoring weapon on the forward line from the bench .

I would probably want New York to sweeten it with a protected 1st round pick to the Bulls

Trade 2 - Bulls and Magic

Jamal Crawford for Mike Miller

This is a balance issue . They need a young point who has shown encouraging glimpses to replace DA ( do they really want to go into the future with Jacque the journeyman and Sassy Jeryl ? )

We need a scorer / shooter depth at the 3 and 2 which is what we get in Mike Miller

Free Agent Signings :

Matt Harpring
Corie Blount
Mike Ruffin ( 1 year deal )
Dan Langhi or Scott Padgett ( 1 year deal )

The wash of it is is that ERob and Charlie cancel each other, we pick up around $900K with Kurt Thomas ( over Marcus and Dali ) and another $600K in the differential between Jamal and Mike Miller

So all up through trades we increase our salary by $1.5M effectively

So we would end up looking like :

Curry, Thomas , Blount
Chandler , Baxter ,Ruffin
Harpring , M.Miller , Langhi
Rose, Hassell, Hoiberg
Williams, Ward, Mason
 

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IS this FJerzy is FJ of rockaway and FJ of rockaway is Fjerzy???

Originally posted by F.Jerzy
1st trade - Bulls and Knicks

Bulls trade ERob , Fizer and Dali for Charlie Ward and Kurt Thomas

Why for the Bulls

Charlie Ward is a very very good defensive point guard and adds a vet presence at the point. He rarely turns the ballover and whilst not flashy he makes percentage plays. A tough as nails player His contract balances out with ERob's but ends 3 years earlier than ERob's

We clear a space at the 3 to chase Harpring and other preferences we may have to play in that spot.

Thomas is adept at PF and C although he is a bit small for center. Hard defender who is surprisingly effective in the Center spot. Good low post moves on the block and can pick up some of the scoring we lose in Fizer. Seals his man off and will rebound the ball . An excellent vet addition that is surplus with Dice being on board and with Spoon signed long term as well as Othella Harrington likely picking up his option at $2.7M . With Doleac likely to sign on as Center and with Travis Knight playing back up minutes at Center , we give them a big body to work with in Dalibor .

Why for the Knicks

They have no depth at the 2 adn 3 bar Shandon Andersen and ERob's salary should not spook them if they paying Shandon $6M and Howard Eisley $5M. By moving Ward they have a wash with ERob's salary that can provide depth and energy at the 3 spot where they need it . They get a big body to use for fouls in Dalibor and an offensive scoring weapon on the forward line from the bench .

I would probably want New York to sweeten it with a protected 1st round pick to the Bulls

Trade 2 - Bulls and Magic

Jamal Crawford for Mike Miller

This is a balance issue . They need a young point who has shown encouraging glimpses to replace DA ( do they really want to go into the future with Jacque the journeyman and Sassy Jeryl ? )

We need a scorer / shooter depth at the 3 and 2 which is what we get in Mike Miller

Free Agent Signings :

Matt Harpring
Corie Blount
Mike Ruffin ( 1 year deal )
Dan Langhi or Scott Padgett ( 1 year deal )

The wash of it is is that ERob and Charlie cancel each other, we pick up around $900K with Kurt Thomas ( over Marcus and Dali ) and another $600K in the differential between Jamal and Mike Miller

So all up through trades we increase our salary by $1.5M effectively

So we would end up looking like :

Curry, Thomas , Blount
Chandler , Baxter ,Ruffin
Harpring , M.Miller , Langhi
Rose, Hassell, Hoiberg
Williams, Ward, Mason

I really enjoyed these trade scenarios and whole heartedly agree...BUT WITH ONE EXCEPTION! PLEASE, NO MORE RUFFIN??? I would rather have TEETH PULLED than watch the baldheaded rabbit on the court! But if it gets us rid of bags...oh, alright! :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Also , this would give us the chance of playing a core 8 man rotation of

Curry
Chandler
Thomas
Harpring
Miller
Rose
Hassell
Williams

Ward and Baxter would see the rest of the minutes

A shorter rotation helps develop cohesiveness quicker
 

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I think it would be a great set of trades for us (although we would need to use a trade exception, which I think we have to do the Orlando deal), but I am not sure why New York would do this deal.

Right now, the Knicks have to feel that Harrington, Weatherspoon, and McDyess are going to eat up all of the minutes at PF, so I am not sure they would see any value in Fizer. (Harrington shot 53% last year with about the same rebounds per 48 minutes as Fizer.)

They lose Thomas who is their best option at C, and we know that Doleac, Knight, and Bags are not going to be the answer for 48 minutes at center.

Between Anderson, Sprewell, and Houston, they get more than 96 minutes a night at the wing positions, so I am not sure they really have much use for Robinson either.

They also lose Ward who is arguably their best point guard right now, making a weak position even weaker.

Of course, the Knicks still have their mid-level exception to fill in holes, but I just don't see the Knicks putting much value on Fizer, Robinson, and Bags.

I like the Orlando trade, provided that the Fizer/Crawford for Lewis possibilities are a pipe dream.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well actually Othella alternated with Kurt Thomas at center last year with Spoon filling the majority of back up PF minutes . Othella isnt a pure center but neither is Kurt

Fizer is a purer scorer than both of them

I agree reliance on Bags is not necessarily a good thing but it wouldnt be that way anyway

Doleac would start and would give them a jum shooting big man that allows Dice to muscle away down low.

Travis Knight and Othella would mop up the center minutes (Knight did hustle and play hard when he did get minutes last year ) and Dalibor is the type of size they covet ( he is one of the bigger bodies going around who can give an easy 6 fouls if they want to take this type of pressure off the mainstays

Fizer is their pure inside/outside scorer from the bench and goes in when they need instant offense - Spoon goes in as relief when they need to stiffen rebounding

Dice's health is hardly a sure bet either so Fizer is a nice option to have. They have their vets upfront but they get two young bigmen - one of which most defiately has value/upside.

Sure , Spree and Houston will eat the minutes with Shandon in reserve .. but they are all 2 guards . ERob gives them legitimate size to play at 3 and further increases their depth where they have 3 x shooting guards only to play the 3 and 2 spots

Charlie Ward their best point guard ?

I guess. But they have Frank Williams to develop behind the capable ( but overpaid ) Howard Eisley and they can always sign Travis Best types . Point Guard is not as much a need for them with Eisley and Williams ( and the capacity to add through exceptions ) as it is with a thin wing attack . They may also add a swing player through free agency as well and if they do ( with ERob on board and if he proves himself by trade deadline ) it also frees them up to move Spree which they have wanted to do for a long time

So these are the reasons why I disagree with you - I think it opens up a boatload of options for New York
 

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FJ, I forgot about Spoon and Knight (I added them to my post later) and didn't realize that Harrington played a lot of center for them last year, but at the end of the day, you just don't see too many teams trade two possible starters for two bench players, especially when the bench players are only marginally better than current bench players.

But it sure would be great if the Knicks agreed with you and not me, so I will hope that I am an idiot.
 

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I have actually thought about that trade with the Knicks. I think it would work if E-Rob showed some form. Thomas would be nice behind Chandler. Then the knicks would package Sprewell and Spoon for at better PG. I'm not a big Mike Miller fan. I'd rather see what Crawford can do at SG before dealing him, if at all.
 

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Another Fizer/ERob trade

Here is another ERob/Fizer trade that is in the same spirit as FJ's. It is not as attractive as FJ's, but the folks over at the Toronto Board at RealGM have loved it, because it would give them a shot at re-signing Keon.

Fizer/Robinson/Hoiberg for JYD, Stewart, Hakeem, Jeffries, and unprotected 2003 #1 pick

(This trade would require getting a trade exception from Miami by trading Best for a 2nd round pick. I proposed giving $3M to Miami to sweeten the deal for them and getting $3M from Toronto in the above trade.)

Hakeem would probably retires if we make this trade, but if we are able to work out a deal where we get some cap relief that might not be that big of a deal. Otherwise, we get another veteran to back-up the center position.

JYD is a perfect defensive-minded and rebounding SF and PF. He would be a perfect fit for us. Jeffries would provide even more defense for us. Stewart would give us a warm body on the bench or injured reserve. Also, having a #1 pick always can come in handy.

Another deal that I have proposed over at the Toronto board (without much reaction) is Robinson and Hoiberg for JYD, Stewart, N'Diaye, Jeffries, and 2003 #1 pick with lottery protection in 2003. I haven't gotten any bites on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well I have always really liked the chnace to add Hakeem to this team and of course Chris Jeffries and a 2003 1st rounder is attractive.

JYD and Yogi are not . Yogi goes long for $3M - $4M and JYD was paid for demonstrative purposes only so Vince would feel comfy and cosy.

JYD's energy is nice but I hate his contract . Maybe he and Erob are a wash though

Not a bad deal but if there is a way we could skip on Yogi I may be inclined to do it if it were up to me
 
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