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Discussion Starter #1
There where like 3-4 times were Van Gundy made comments that seemed to question VDN's coaching.

Hubbie even chimed in

"Would you ever run a half court offense with a PG like Rose?"

Van Gundy "No," lol.

And thats coming from Van Gundy the king of slowing down offenses.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

There where like 3-4 times were Van Gundy made comments that seemed to question VDN's coaching.

Hubbie even chimed in

"Would you ever run a half court offense with a PG like Rose?"

Van Gundy "No," lol.

And thats coming from Van Gundy the king of slowing down offenses.
Van Gundy wasn't calling tonight's game.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

I agree with a lot of what Hubie was saying, for the record. He's a smart guy. That's stuff that happens with just about every team, though, a lot of it. Never does a team run as well as the former coach commentators say that it can. I dunno.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

hubie knows full well no team can run without stops. the bulls (at least attempt to) run practically EVERY single time after a missed shot and rebound. i'd like to hear what hubie's opinion of running is after taking the ball out of bounds, and allowing the defensive team to go back down court and set their D. the bulls, when they got stops were able to run; in the 4th however, atl made a lot of shots with the players THEY have that can create their own shot, and/or pass out of double teams to players who CAN actually make shots (not a lot of offense, just out-talenting the bulls "defensive stoppers", salmons, kirk "mr intangible" hinrich and deng) whereas, the bulls are woefully and pitifully deficient at the same. the hawks also pounded the offensive glass, again limiting the bulls opportunities to get the board and get out on the break.


a very short sighted and ill-prepared off the cuff statement.

and an even worse attempt at criticizing VDN for not making sugar out of s**t with his offensively challenged roster.

keep hope alive!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

Yeah My bad, It was Jon Barry lol.

Better change the title huh lol.

But I did agree with everything they said, they just could not understand why VDN did not run Rose as much, it was nice to see guys openly question other coaches, the whole industry is full of *** kissers where everyone is great, everything is great, great organization, great coaching, great effort blah blah blah.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

Yeah My bad, It was Jon Barry lol.

Better change the title huh lol.

But I did agree with everything they said, they just could not understand why VDN did not run Rose as much, it was nice to see guys openly question other coaches, the whole industry is full of *** kissers where everyone is great, everything is great, great organization, great coaching, great effort blah blah blah.
I wouldn't say that. All the old coaches do a pretty good job at telling it like it is, IMO. I love listening to Collins, Fratello, Van Gundy, and Hubie...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

hubie knows full well no team can run without stops. the bulls (at least attempt to) run practically EVERY single time after a missed shot and rebound. i'd like to hear what hubie's opinion of running is after taking the ball out of bounds, and allowing the defensive team to go back down court and set their D. the bulls, when they got stops were able to run; in the 4th however, atl made a lot of shots with the players THEY have that can create their own shot, and/or pass out of double teams to players who CAN actually make shots (not a lot of offense, just out-talenting the bulls "defensive stoppers", salmons, kirk "mr intangible" hinrich and deng) whereas, the bulls are woefully and pitifully deficient at the same. the hawks also pounded the offensive glass, again limiting the bulls opportunities to get the board and get out on the break.


a very short sighted and ill-prepared off the cuff statement.

and an even worse attempt at criticizing VDN for not making sugar out of s**t with his offensively challenged roster.

keep hope alive!!
Obviously you cant run every single position but Barry I think made a good point, if you cant run why not set picks near the half court because Rose can beat anyone 1 on 1.

The pick and roll has been slowed down BIG time recently because of teams trapping Rose high, they both made some valid points.

Not like it really matters much anyway's, Vinny will not be back next season.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

I wouldn't say that. All the old coaches do a pretty good job at telling it like it is, IMO. I love listening to Collins, Fratello, Van Gundy, and Hubie...
True, even Stacy King has no problems with telling it like it is.

Collin's is not scared to speak his mind but sometimes when I watch games on direct pass some of these homers are just bad.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Barry openly question VDN?

Not like it really matters much anyway's, Vinny will not be back next season.
hate to bust your little "hate vinny" bubble, but he's got a guaranteed 3rd year coming; if the team makes the playoffs, i doubt they ditch him for a higher priced guy, (think about it; this is jerry reinsdorf we're referring to.....a playoff team WITH a cheap coach? pay VDN to NOT coach, bring in a more expensive coach? AFTER paying a top-tier FA? not on your life.... lmao); and i in no way believe any FA's will base their decision NOT to come to the bulls on VDN.

so i hope you'll come up with some fresher material.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Barry openly question VDN?

hate to bust your little "hate vinny" bubble, but he's got a guaranteed 3rd year coming; if the team makes the playoffs, i doubt they ditch him for a higher priced guy, (think about it; this is jerry reinsdorf we're referring to.....a playoff team WITH a cheap coach? pay VDN to NOT coach, bring in a more expensive coach? AFTER paying a top-tier FA? not on your life.... lmao); and i in no way believe any FA's will base their decision NOT to come to the bulls on VDN.

so i hope you'll come up with some fresher material.
Cause that 3rd year is Sooooo Expensive to cut.

No way will try to woo the elite of the NBA with Vinny still the head coach.

If the Bulls are committed to winning a Championship they need to hire a real head coach, its not Vinny bashing its just the truth.

Coaching salary does not affect the cap.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Van Gundy openly question VDN?

hubie knows full well no team can run without stops. the bulls (at least attempt to) run practically EVERY single time after a missed shot and rebound. i'd like to hear what hubie's opinion of running is after taking the ball out of bounds, and allowing the defensive team to go back down court and set their D. the bulls, when they got stops were able to run; in the 4th however, atl made a lot of shots with the players THEY have that can create their own shot, and/or pass out of double teams to players who CAN actually make shots (not a lot of offense, just out-talenting the bulls "defensive stoppers", salmons, kirk "mr intangible" hinrich and deng) whereas, the bulls are woefully and pitifully deficient at the same. the hawks also pounded the offensive glass, again limiting the bulls opportunities to get the board and get out on the break.


a very short sighted and ill-prepared off the cuff statement.

and an even worse attempt at criticizing VDN for not making sugar out of s**t with his offensively challenged roster.

keep hope alive!!
^^^Was going to type something, but Bullhitter nailed my thoughts.

I heard them saying this and thought it was an odd thing to say. Even the best fast-break teams of the era still need to play half-court sets, and they need to pretty darn frequently. It struck me as a very shallow comment. I've heard countless reports over the years of good open-court players needing to learn how to play half-court ball to be successful in the playoffs. This was a huge knock on D'Antoni's Suns teams -- the minute they were forced to slow it down, they couldn't get it done. Conversely, the championship Spurs teams knew how to play both ways, whether fast or slow. IMO, true championship teams usually have the ability to play both fast-break and half-court extraordinarily well.
 

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Cause that 3rd year is Sooooo Expensive to cut.

it doesn't get "cut"; it has to be paid. do you think reinsdorf will pay it, AFTER he's fired VDN for making the playoffs? interesting how a fans can just arbitrarily prognosticate how millionaire owners can or will just dump millions of dollars from a binding contract.

No way will try to woo the elite of the NBA with Vinny still the head coach.
i guess you mean the bulls "won't" try to "woo" the elite with vinny.....tell me, do you recall a player choosing a team BECAUSE OF the head coach? or not BECAUSE of a head coach? i can just hear the press conference by dwade; "the bulls look like they're serious about winning a ring, because they hired jeff van gundy, so that's why i think they were my first choice......oh, that and the 20 million dollar contract....." :funny:

If the Bulls are committed to winning a Championship they need to hire a real head coach, its not Vinny bashing its just the truth.
a) the bulls are committed to making profits; championships are just a by-product of good fortune and good managment; stay tuned and see if this doesn't bear itself out; and yes it's the truth AS YOU see it.

Coaching salary does not affect the cap
understood, but it doesn't matter in the least; however, that doesn't preclude managment desiring to pay for coaches NOT coaching. they hired the cheapest one they could find while still paying skiles when he quit. maybe they'll hire a HS coach, huh?

lastly, stopping the high P&R would in no way stop teams from doubling rose the instant he comes across half-court; in fact, if there is no pick, there's a huge chance that rose doesn't even have an outlet when the double comes. the P&R at least creates a mismatch if handled correctly, which rose at times doesn't recognize quickly enough, and/or after passing out of the big mishandles the 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 afterward. every team that has a quick pg is usually doubled high to: a)take more time off the shot clock; b)get other guys trying to initiate offense; c) take the ball out of the hands of the most dangerous offensive player. better offensive players is the answer (they'll cost more than 10 mil though), not some magical "play" that a smarter coach would pull out of his azz.

the bulls problem is NOT the P&R; it's the impotent, unskilled, and mentally fragile "defensive" offensive players trying to manifest it.

keep hope alive!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
it doesn't get "cut"; it has to be paid. do you think reinsdorf will pay it, AFTER he's fired VDN for making the playoffs? interesting how a fans can just arbitrarily prognosticate how millionaire owners can or will just dump millions of dollars from a binding contract.
Duh it has to be paid, you act like its so damn hard to make the playoff's. The Bulls are 2 games under .500 and if the playoff's started today they would be in it! Dumping millions of dollars? Vinny at the most is making 1 million next year, they paid freaking Lindsey Hunter 1 million to keep around as the Bulls 300 pound 3rd pg, I dont think 1 million dollars is going to get in the way of making this team better.

i guess you mean the bulls "won't" try to "woo" the elite with vinny.....tell me, do you recall a player choosing a team BECAUSE OF the head coach? or not BECAUSE of a head coach? i can just hear the press conference by dwade; "the bulls look like they're serious about winning a ring, because they hired jeff van gundy, so that's why i think they were my first choice......oh, that and the 20 million dollar contract....." :funny:
Eddie Jones, Grant Hill, Duncan and T-Mac wanted NOTHING to do with the Bulls no matter how much money they where going to get back in 2000, if its all about the money dont you think they would have chosen the Chicago market even with Tim Floyd coaching?


a) the bulls are committed to making profits; championships are just a by-product of good fortune and good managment; stay tuned and see if this doesn't bear itself out; and yes it's the truth AS YOU see it.
If a franchise is not committed to winning a championship then they are just taking advantage of the fan base, the goal for a franchise as historic as the Bulls in this basketball crazed market is to WIN A TITLE. I agree that Jerry just cares about money, I guess I'm just hopeful that he has enough pride to put out a contending team and not some yearly 8th seed. If not sell the damn team and let someone with a real passion for this franchise to run the team.

Championship's raise franchise value, its just as profitable to own an elite team in this market than to just have a mediocre one.

understood, but it doesn't matter in the least; however, that doesn't preclude managment desiring to pay for coaches NOT coaching. they hired the cheapest one they could find while still paying skiles when he quit. maybe they'll hire a HS coach, huh?

lastly, stopping the high P&R would in no way stop teams from doubling rose the instant he comes across half-court; in fact, if there is no pick, there's a huge chance that rose doesn't even have an outlet when the double comes. the P&R at least creates a mismatch if handled correctly, which rose at times doesn't recognize quickly enough, and/or after passing out of the big mishandles the 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 afterward. every team that has a quick pg is usually doubled high to: a)take more time off the shot clock; b)get other guys trying to initiate offense; c) take the ball out of the hands of the most dangerous offensive player. better offensive players is the answer (they'll cost more than 10 mil though), not some magical "play" that a smarter coach would pull out of his azz.

the bulls problem is NOT the P&R; it's the impotent, unskilled, and mentally fragile "defensive" offensive players trying to manifest it.

keep hope alive!
If they could live with paying Skiles who made a lot more than Vinny, they will not have a problem with paying only 1 year on a cheap contract if they can pick up a better head coach, not saying the Bulls need to go after Larry Brown or someone who will be making 7-10 million a year, but someone skilled and experienced.

Like Barry said why not pick Rose's guard the second he crosses the mid court line, Rose would easily beat his second man, he gets near the ft line defenders will either close on him leaving Deng or Kirk open, they will either stay with their man leading to Rose either stopping for a easy mid range jumper or take it to the basket for a high percentage shot.

When you dont have one player on the team capable of setting a real screen or pick obviously its going to make that play easier to defend, the main problem is Vinny's lack of being able adjust to situations where the other team is trapping its best player, hes had NO answer for it since the Hornets game.

Its time to move on.
 

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Re: Anyone else notice Hubie and Barry openly question VDN?

hate to bust your little "hate vinny" bubble, but he's got a guaranteed 3rd year coming; if the team makes the playoffs, i doubt they ditch him for a higher priced guy, (think about it; this is jerry reinsdorf we're referring to.....a playoff team WITH a cheap coach? pay VDN to NOT coach, bring in a more expensive coach? AFTER paying a top-tier FA? not on your life.... lmao); and i in no way believe any FA's will base their decision NOT to come to the bulls on VDN.

so i hope you'll come up with some fresher material.

I don't know that merely getting into the playoffs saves Vinny's job.
 
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