As much as I'd love to see our draft status improve, I don't think Tanking will help us in the long run...we still have to complete the process of LEARNING how to WIN in the first place, and there are no Tim Duncans in this draft (the spurs tanked that year).
anyone think we should "tank" the remainder
does anyone think we should "tank" the rest of our season? I'm loving Roy more and more with our pick but consequently, his draft stock is getting higher and higher. The way it is now, we would have about the 11th or 12th pick and I honestly think Roy can go 10th or higher. Now I know it remains to be seen whether many players declare or not (Aldridge, McRoberts perhaps, O'Bryant etc) but even so I'd feel safer knowing we semi-reach for someone like Roy with a 6-10 range pick (where I think he may go) rather than hope he falls to us around 11-12. Looking at the teams who own higher picks than we do, I don't think any of them can catch up to us in terms of wins if we play well. So again that brings up the question, do we potentially "tank" the rest of our season to get two top 10 picks (I'm guessing around top 4 with Knicks, possibly 8th pick with ours) or do we just go with Roy with the Knicks pick?
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The Bulls should use Duhon and Nocioni as bait to grab Roy.
Sure, and the injury Robinson sustained was planned!there are no Tim Duncans in this draft (the spurs tanked that year).
Not sure I'd do that for Roy, but I'm liking the idea of grabbing probably another high pick in this draft, definitely would use Duhon and Sweets as bait, but I'm reluctant to add Nocioni.The Bulls should use Duhon and Nocioni as bait to grab Roy.
I like Roy too, but don't think he'll be anything more than a "poor man's" Jalen Rose. :eek8: Not worth tanking for. Plus I think the Bulls should go big with both picks. Say Bargnani & Splitter. If not, I'd rather have Rush over Roy.southpark said:does anyone think we should "tank" the rest of our season? I'm loving Roy more and more with our pick but consequently, his draft stock is getting higher and higher. The way it is now, we would have about the 11th or 12th pick and I honestly think Roy can go 10th or higher. Now I know it remains to be seen whether many players declare or not (Aldridge, McRoberts perhaps, O'Bryant etc) but even so I'd feel safer knowing we semi-reach for someone like Roy with a 6-10 range pick (where I think he may go) rather than hope he falls to us around 11-12. Looking at the teams who own higher picks than we do, I don't think any of them can catch up to us in terms of wins if we play well. So again that brings up the question, do we potentially "tank" the rest of our season to get two top 10 picks (I'm guessing around top 4 with Knicks, possibly 8th pick with ours) or do we just go with Roy with the Knicks pick?
I wouldn't advocate tanking for anybody, but a poor man's Jalen Rose? I don't see it. Rose doesn't guard anybody and Roy is a pretty damn good defnder, he looks like a total stud to me. If Washington gets to the Final 4 (and I don't think that's such a far-fetched idea with UConn playing the way they've been playing) I think Roy could end up being this tournament's Dwyane Wade. I really, really like his game and I think it's going to translate well to the NBA. And Rush over Roy? Really? To me they're about even as athletes and Roy is a much, much better basketball player. Washington is pretty thin this year and he's totally carrying them. Count me on the Brandon Roy bandwagon - IMO he's played himself into the top 10, if the Huskies make a serious run I think he'll be top 5.Bulls4Life said:I like Roy too, but don't think he'll be anything more than a "poor man's" Jalen Rose. :eek8: Not worth tanking for. Plus I think the Bulls should go big with both picks. Say Bargnani & Splitter. If not, I'd rather have Rush over Roy.
My comparision, add the Rose and Wade comparsions together, divide by two, and subtract an inch. I think he would be the perfect compliment to Ben, and actually might just end up being an upgrade.jbulls said:I wouldn't advocate tanking for anybody, but a poor man's Jalen Rose? I don't see it. Rose doesn't guard anybody and Roy is a pretty damn good defnder, he looks like a total stud to me.
I think Roy could end up being this tournament's Dwyane Wade. I really, really like his game and I think it's going to translate well to the NBA.
Big game coming up for Gay, Armstrong, M.Williams, Anderson, Brown, Boone and Roy. I got Washington.
Why tank? We have a team tanking for us, remember?
The playoff experience -- even if we finish with 36 wins and get brutally swept by the Pistons -- is invaluable. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and especially not a <1% chance to move up in a weak draft.
When I was reading Sam Smith's draft piece, it struck me: if we're not going to make a big trade, Pax should just take his guy with the Knicks pick and be done with it. Let's not get cute with trading down, let's not worry that we're taking a guy at 3 when all the mocks say he should go at 7, etc. If Paxson wants Brandon Roy, he should take him with the Knicks pick. If he wants Patrick O'Bryant, he should take him with the Knicks pick.
Of course, if there's a team a couple spots behind us that falls in love with a player we don't want, I'd want Pax to examine trading down if he's pretty sure he can still get one of his guys. I just don't want Pax to get trapped by "best player available" thinking -- more than most years, we're not going to know who the best player available was for a few seasons.
While I think the Bulls are a considerable ways away from contending for a championship, it's not so far away that we should choose our draft picks without any consideration of what we've already got, especially when the draft pool is so wide-open. There are 10-12 candidates right now (maybe more) who could make a legitimate case for going in the top three. That's almost unheard of.
The playoff experience -- even if we finish with 36 wins and get brutally swept by the Pistons -- is invaluable. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and especially not a <1% chance to move up in a weak draft.
When I was reading Sam Smith's draft piece, it struck me: if we're not going to make a big trade, Pax should just take his guy with the Knicks pick and be done with it. Let's not get cute with trading down, let's not worry that we're taking a guy at 3 when all the mocks say he should go at 7, etc. If Paxson wants Brandon Roy, he should take him with the Knicks pick. If he wants Patrick O'Bryant, he should take him with the Knicks pick.
Of course, if there's a team a couple spots behind us that falls in love with a player we don't want, I'd want Pax to examine trading down if he's pretty sure he can still get one of his guys. I just don't want Pax to get trapped by "best player available" thinking -- more than most years, we're not going to know who the best player available was for a few seasons.
While I think the Bulls are a considerable ways away from contending for a championship, it's not so far away that we should choose our draft picks without any consideration of what we've already got, especially when the draft pool is so wide-open. There are 10-12 candidates right now (maybe more) who could make a legitimate case for going in the top three. That's almost unheard of.
I'd be for tanking if it meant playing young and talent players who wouldn't play if the team was being competative. However that's not the situation with this team -- the young players play already -- so I don't see the long upside in playing Pike, Othella, Pargo and the rest of the scrubs at the expense of the teams young core.
However I would love to see the Bulls with a chance to draft Brandon Roy.
However I would love to see the Bulls with a chance to draft Brandon Roy.
Roy as a top five, looks more and more realistic for this reason. It's kind of nice because we also will get the 10-12th pick.ScottMay said:There are 10-12 candidates right now (maybe more) who could make a legitimate case for going in the top three. That's almost unheard of.
Right now I would call these guys locks to enter and go lotto
Aldridge
Bargnani
Gay
Morrison
Roy
Noah
Carney
OBryant
Redick
Williams
If one or two more quality guys stand out we can have a very solid draft regardless. Will a couple of these guys enter or improve their stock??? I think definitly.
Thomas
Brewer
Splitter
McRoberts
Rondo
Foye
Lowry
Shawne Williams
Hibbert
I agree!!!ScottMay said:Why tank? We have a team tanking for us, remember?
The playoff experience -- even if we finish with 36 wins and get brutally swept by the Pistons -- is invaluable. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and especially not a <1% chance to move up in a weak draft.
When I was reading Sam Smith's draft piece, it struck me: if we're not going to make a big trade, Pax should just take his guy with the Knicks pick and be done with it. Let's not get cute with trading down, let's not worry that we're taking a guy at 3 when all the mocks say he should go at 7, etc. If Paxson wants Brandon Roy, he should take him with the Knicks pick. If he wants Patrick O'Bryant, he should take him with the Knicks pick.
Of course, if there's a team a couple spots behind us that falls in love with a player we don't want, I'd want Pax to examine trading down if he's pretty sure he can still get one of his guys. I just don't want Pax to get trapped by "best player available" thinking -- more than most years, we're not going to know who the best player available was for a few seasons.
While I think the Bulls are a considerable ways away from contending for a championship, it's not so far away that we should choose our draft picks without any consideration of what we've already got, especially when the draft pool is so wide-open. There are 10-12 candidates right now (maybe more) who could make a legitimate case for going in the top three. That's almost unheard of.
As ScottMay brought out, we are "tanking" though I do not think they are doing it on purpose.
I am against losing on purpose. How does that instill the desire to win to a young team if they are not asked to give their all every game? We have many players in the league that do that now!
Tanking is not playing "the right way."
I am against losing on purpose. How does that instill the desire to win to a young team if they are not asked to give their all every game? We have many players in the league that do that now!
Tanking is not playing "the right way."
I don't quite agree that losing to the Pistons in round 1 is invaluable. For example, I'd trade that experience for Lebron.
Well, obviously. But he's not on the block, and there isn't a player of his caliber available in the draft.TripleDouble said:I don't quite agree that losing to the Pistons in round 1 is invaluable. For example, I'd trade that experience for Lebron.
And I think not making the playoffs represents a fairly serious step backward for the team, if we are to assume that the current roster contains at least a significant part of the nucleus of an eventual championship contender. The playoffs are an entirely different brand of basketball, and putting off that learning process for another year is kind of a big deal imo.
Couldn't have said it better myself.ScottMay said:Why tank? We have a team tanking for us, remember?
The playoff experience -- even if we finish with 36 wins and get brutally swept by the Pistons -- is invaluable. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and especially not a <1% chance to move up in a weak draft.
When I was reading Sam Smith's draft piece, it struck me: if we're not going to make a big trade, Pax should just take his guy with the Knicks pick and be done with it. Let's not get cute with trading down, let's not worry that we're taking a guy at 3 when all the mocks say he should go at 7, etc. If Paxson wants Brandon Roy, he should take him with the Knicks pick. If he wants Patrick O'Bryant, he should take him with the Knicks pick.
Of course, if there's a team a couple spots behind us that falls in love with a player we don't want, I'd want Pax to examine trading down if he's pretty sure he can still get one of his guys. I just don't want Pax to get trapped by "best player available" thinking -- more than most years, we're not going to know who the best player available was for a few seasons.
While I think the Bulls are a considerable ways away from contending for a championship, it's not so far away that we should choose our draft picks without any consideration of what we've already got, especially when the draft pool is so wide-open. There are 10-12 candidates right now (maybe more) who could make a legitimate case for going in the top three. That's almost unheard of.
Or you could put it in another perspective, maybe missing the playoffs will make the players a bit more determined to return. But in no way I'd advocate in trying to bolster our pick, it's too long of a shot and quite useless in this draft.The playoffs are an entirely different brand of basketball, and putting off that learning process for another year is kind of a big deal imo.
No it wasn't planned, but if I remember correctly, he got healthy enough to play with about 20 games to go, and they simply.........."decided" he wasn't healthy enough to play.step said:Sure, and the injury Robinson sustained was planned!
Not sure I'd do that for Roy, but I'm liking the idea of grabbing probably another high pick in this draft, definitely would use Duhon and Sweets as bait, but I'm reluctant to add Nocioni.
Yeah, there are varying degrees of it, but what the Spurs did was definitely tanking.The Krakken said:No it wasn't planned, but if I remember correctly, he got healthy enough to play with about 20 games to go, and they simply.........."decided" he wasn't healthy enough to play.
Of course, their method paled in comparison to Boston, who went so far as to let M.L. Carr coach actual NBA games.
Yeah, both situations were kinda ugly. But anyone who thinks the Spurs didn't tank the second half of the season just before Duncan, is not in touch with what really happened that season. They tanked. Hard.ScottMay said:Yeah, there are varying degrees of it, but what the Spurs did was definitely tanking.
Of course, their method paled in comparison to Boston, who went so far as to let M.L. Carr coach actual NBA games.
Same with the Celtics.
Same with the Cavs a few years ago.
And I am also not advocating tanking, but look what the Spurs got in return. And look at what the Cavs got for tanking as well. Two of the best players in the league right now (one of them already has three rings). So I know this draft sucks, but sometimes tanking one season can lead to success in the future.The Krakken said:Yeah, both situations were kinda ugly. But anyone who thinks the Spurs didn't tank the second half of the season just before Duncan, is not in touch with what really happened that season. They tanked. Hard.
Same with the Celtics.
Same with the Cavs a few years ago.
What I'm saying is, maybe: We don't get in the playoffs. Our guys motivate themselves to getter better this summer. We draft a couple bigs (O'Bryant, Shelden just to name two) and we acquire a veteran guard and a big man to come in and also bring back AD. Now, what if we get to the second round next year (hypothetically speaking), then the year after that we become contenders by getting rid of the guys that don't belong (very few, I'd think), and bringing in guys who want to compete for a title. That is basically what San Antonio did, although I must admit they had a ton of help from Duncan and Robinson. But this summer could help us tremendously in getting to the level that we want this team to get to. Things sometimes happen for a reason, and maybe Paxson was right all along in trading away Curry for the picks. Maybe we end up drafting the right guys and we become contenders in about a year and a half. Things could all work out for us. I hope so anyway!
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