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TheGoods said:
You may have read my two substantive posts, so I'll be honest when I say that this article is full of scientifically vague and misleading statements. Particularly the statements about motor development and muscle fibers are simply wrong. Muscle fiber (slow vs fast) to some extent is hereditary, but to nowhere near the extent implied. As I previously mentioned, IIalpha and IIbeta fibers flip, fast vs slow, depending on activity and training.

The bottom line froma strictly physiological view, without the clear biases of this article (perhaps due to a writer lacking in medical training), is that some, but not all or even most, people of African descent have elongated tendons (particularly achilles and patella) which certainly make them better run-jump athletes. However the argument for the predisposition for fast oxidative over fast glycolytic muscle fibers is unsubstantiated. In fact on average those of African descent have no distinct advantage or disadvantage on cursory glance. However, if you take the athletes among the entire population, they will have elongated tendons (more likely than not) as well as a high percentage of fast oxidative fibers. Now the question that arises is, is the high instance of fast oxidative fibers hereditary or a product of hard work and muscle building exercise? It may be a combination of both. But certainly if you ask a pro athlete how much work goes into their training, it indicates that the instance of fast-oxidative fibers is due to work and not genetics. If you'd like to talk about the work ethic of black athletes versus white athletes, that may have merit based on this evidence. Or there could be a biochemical predisposition at work that allows those black athletes to convert glycolytic to oxidative more easily; but there has been no substantiated or throough study to provide any insight there.

Basically, you cannot arrive at general physiological conclusions without looking at the entire population, prior to making such a generalization. Things average out though. For every Watutsi, there may be a Pygmi who evens things out. What's really at work is a higher standard deviation among athletes of African descent and these qualities (ie: more extremes among peak and bottom tier athletes.
Interesting.

Note that I'm not taking sides. I just thought for the purpose of this discussion, that article is relevant and may add to the discussion. No, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert when it comes to muscle physiology and what not.

I have to agree with you, though, on the point that hard work is a very vital component behind a pro athlete's rise to the top.
 

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benfica said:
We have to open up Athletic ability more...if your talking about short burst of explosive power, East African's seem to excel in those types of sports.

But if your talking jumping and running for long periods, whites dominate. The average Whites can do more reps with more power for longer periods. The average white guy should be able to jump higher and run faster for longer periods. White's have more slow moving muscles, which can withstand forces for longer periods.

This is one reason why most East African's are lousy construction workers or any activity that requires endurance and power....I say this because I used to own a construction company...lol

But it looks like everybody was created with some distinct advantages to excel in. For example, you don't see any East African software engineers, but you see lots of Indian and Chinese.

The NBA, with emphasis on long frames, jumping and running is tailored made for the East African
male.

As for swimming, no reason why the East African male could not excel in short swim races as they
too required short burst of power and speed...or even short skate races..or any sports that requires short burst of power and speed.

You'll never see an East African win a Marathon, nor a Kenyan win 100 meter race....never.

One thing that puzzles me though, is that in the NFL the player with the most explosive leg power
is usually a small white guy...the little kicker who can generate more speed and power in his right leg to drive a ball 70th yards.
This is the funniest thing I've ever read.
 

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Those Kenyans had better begin training in East Africa...
 

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TomBoerwinkle#1 said:
African-Americans are unquestionably better black athletes than white players are.
Steve Nash is a white African-Canadian. :biggrin:
 

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To tell u what i think.The slave owners bred their biggest strongest fastest best health slaves.They did this so they could be strong like oxen run real fast and be really fit and in shape.I don't want to come off as a racist but im just stating what i know about slavery and history.
 

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I think we all know who the REAL Mvp of this game was....

So in conclusion White Atheletes > Black Athelets...the prosecution rests your honor.
 

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Zidane said:
To tell u what i think.The slave owners bred their biggest strongest fastest best health slaves.They did this so they could be strong like oxen run real fast and be really fit and in shape.I don't want to come off as a racist but im just stating what i know about slavery and history.
Are you serious? I hope not. If you believe blacks got their athletic ability from slavery I have my concerns about the Oregon educational system.
 

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Zidane said:
To tell u what i think.The slave owners bred their biggest strongest fastest best health slaves.They did this so they could be strong like oxen run real fast and be really fit and in shape.I don't want to come off as a racist but im just stating what i know about slavery and history.
:raised_ey I can't believe someone would actually post something like this. This has got to be one of the worse posts I have read in a long time on BBB net.
 

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It's probably in the environments. Natural selection baby, people in different environments need different things to survive in their respective habitats. ;)
 

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Kitty said:
:raised_ey I can't believe someone would actually post something like this. This has got to be one of the worse posts I have read in a long time on BBB net.
Actually aside from natural physiological traits (see my previous posts if you want some info), you do have to take into account that the slaves brought over were the most fit and so were selected and bred (I have a feeling it's the world bred that offends you, but it shouldn't in historical context) as such. You had bottlenecking populations in terms of fitness, in both directions. If one slave was stronger he'd be given more food, and would be more likely to reproduce with a corresponding woman. So even unintentionally, which it was not in many cases, slaves reproduced (forcibly or not, as I won't use the word bred here so as not to offend) and had the healthiest and fittest offspring because they were... Then you have selective advantages in natural tendon elongation (which would have had some correspondence). So between the two factors a concentrated super-athletic population arose. By the same token, those that were not the fittest reproduced with their like, so that resulted in the low and low-mid athletic margins. So it's easy to see how the concept of slave reproduction is the likely explanation to the high variance in fitness.

You can find it offensive, but in addition to physiological traits that some (but certainly not all) people of African decent benefit from, there is the historical context and observerved statistics in regards to slavery and resulting effects. It would be an interesting study to do a through analysis of the variance in fitness, but I'm sure it would be deemed racist for no valid reason. It's quite possible that it was mostly natural reproduction in any event, with people of like fitness reproducing together. Which is likely how the African populations had the concentrated populations with the physiological advantage(s) in the first place, however it's foolish to discount slavery and the effects as non-related, or worse, racist.
 

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TheGoods said:
Actually aside from natural physiological traits (see my previous posts if you want some info), you do have to take into account that the slaves brought over were the most fit and so were selected and bred (I have a feeling it's the world bred that offends you, but it shouldn't in historical context) as such. You had bottlenecking populations in terms of fitness, in both directions. If one slave was stronger he'd be given more food, and would be more likely to reproduce with a corresponding woman. So even unintentionally, which it was not in many cases, slaves reproduced (forcibly or not, as I won't use the word bred here so as not to offend) and had the healthiest and fittest offspring because they were... Then you have selective advantages in natural tendon elongation (which would have had some correspondence). So between the two factors a concentrated super-athletic population arose. By the same token, those that were not the fittest reproduced with their like, so that resulted in the low and low-mid athletic margins. So it's easy to see how the concept of slave reproduction is the likely explanation to the high variance in fitness.

You can find it offensive, but in addition to physiological traits that some (but certainly not all) people of African decent benefit from, there is the historical context and observerved statistics in regards to slavery and resulting effects. It would be an interesting study to do a through analysis of the variance in fitness, but I'm sure it would be deemed racist for no valid reason. It's quite possible that it was mostly natural reproduction in any event, with people of like fitness reproducing together. Which is likely how the African populations had the concentrated populations with the physiological advantage(s) in the first place, however it's foolish to discount slavery and the effects as non-related, or worse, racist.
For you to even support that notion shows that it is in fact foolish.
 

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Kitty said:
For you to even support that notion shows that it is in fact foolish.
Excuse you? Are you implying that if I support something it's foolish? Because that would be rather foolish itself... Particularly had you read my previous posts in this thread.

Genetic heritance of fitness, as well as of physiological advantages is clearly what's at work. The question is in what capacity and mechanism. You are being close minded to history and reality, and plain foolish yourself.
 

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TheGoods said:
Excuse you? Are you implying that if I support something it's foolish? Because that would be rather foolish itself... Particularly had you read my previous posts in this thread.

Genetic heritance of fitness, as well as of physiological advantages is clearly what's at work. The question is in what capacity and mechanism. You are being close minded to history and reality, and plain foolish yourself.
No I didn't read your previous post, and I care not to. Yes, I'm stating that rhetoric is foolish, plain and simple. Just because someone dosen't agree with you on this particular topic, does not mean they are close minded. Move on.....

Edit- Black, white, hispanic if you work hard you can be the best. Time to stop thinking in terms of black and white.
 

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Kitty said:
No I didn't read your previous post, and I care not to. Yes, I'm stating that rhetoric is foolish, plain and simple. Just because someone dosen't agree with you on this particular topic, does not mean they are close minded. Move on.....
:laugh: This just made my day... You are the one trying ram something home, not me... But I suppose someone so easily offended doesn't read the content of a post. There are observation/statistical facts as well as physiological facts at work. If you are white and offended by the fact that some black people have an elongated achilles and/or patella tendon, which gives them a sizable advantage, deal with it. If you are offended for the sake of being offended, grow up.

I've stated no rhetoric, and given that I provided a basis for my statements, it is you who is spewing BS and rhetoric... But I can see how that might be confusing to you.
 

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TheGoods said:
:laugh: This just made my day... You are the one trying ram something home, not me... But I suppose someone so easily offended doesn't read the content of a post. There are observation/statistical facts as well as physiological facts at work. If you are white and offended by the fact that some black people have an elongated achilles and/or patella tendon, which gives them a sizable advantage, deal with it. If you are offended for the sake of being offended, grow up.

I've stated no rhetoric, and given that I provided a basis for my statements, it is you who is spewing BS and rhetoric... But I can see how that might be confusing to you.
Who said I was offended? Let me put on my glasses to see if that word was used in any of my post. If you read correctly, when I posted to that other member, I said I couldn't believe someone would post something like that. Didn't say I was offended, I just thought it was a terrible post. So do me a favor deal with it!
 

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Kitty said:
Who said I was offended? Let me put on my glasses to see if that word was used in any of my post. If you read correctly, when I posted to that other member, I said I couldn't believe someone would post something like that. Didn't say I was offended, I just thought it was a terrible post. So do me a favor deal with it!
You jumped on it like someone truly offended. So if you are not, you're over-passioned (take it as it is) on the issue.

I'm a biomedical engineer by training. I take things as evidentiary, and speculate there upon. Extrapolation is not even part of the game when there's evidentiary support. And I'll leave pontification for windbags.

If you weren't offended whatever. But in no way was I hammering a point home. Regardless of sentiment, reproduction ultimately is the deterministic factor in relation to the heritance of superior fitness and physiology. If you don't "believe" in genetics, so be it. But that would be your issue.
 

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TheGoods said:
You jumped on it like someone truly offended. So if you are not, you're over-passioned (take it as it is) on the issue.
Maybe the Brooklyn post accent comes across that way, who knows. IMO, genetics..is not a factor.Like I said in a previous post, no matter what race if you work hard you can be successful in the sport you choose.
 

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Kitty said:
Maybe the Brooklyn post accent comes across that way, who knows. IMO, genetics..is not a factor.Like I said in a previous post, no matter what race if you work hard you can be successful in the sport you choose.
And you accuse me of rhetoric :rolleyes:...
 

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The idea that slavery in America has something to do with blacks being more athletic than whites is foolish and misguided. In hindsight it is possible to apply any form of belief you want to appropriate an idea of today. The belief that blacks were helped in becoming more athletic than whites by being servents, beaten, whipped, raped, hung, worked like oxen, etc. only illuminates people's ignorance. The fact is slavery in America began around 1619, so to say blacks have evolved in less than 400 years into becoming this surpreme athlete is ingnorance at it's finest.
 

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ralaw said:
The idea that slavery in America has something to do with blacks being more athletic than whites is foolish and misguided. In hindsight it is possible to apply any form of belief you want to appropriate an idea of today. The belief that blacks were helped in becoming more athletic than whites by being servents, beaten, whipped, raped, hung, worked like oxen, etc. only illuminates people's ignorance. The fact is slavery in America began around 1619, so to say blacks have evolved in less than 400 years into becoming this surpreme athlete is ingnorance at it's finest.
Agreed 100 percent!
 
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