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Are these good enough reasons to believe McGrady is selfish? (Reasons in post)

  • No

    Votes: 17 65.4%
  • Yes

    Votes: 9 34.6%

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Tracy McGrady wanted to leave Toronto to play with Grant Hill and the Orlando Magic. Tracy McGrady also wanted to leave Orlando to play with Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets.

Based on those facts, is it reasonable for someone to arrive at the conclusion that McGrady is selfish? Keep in mind that this isn't asking whether you think McGrady actually is selfish, just whether those facts are enough of a reason to believe he is.
 

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I don't know. How are we defining "selfish"? In the first case, he made his choice because he thought he'd be playing for a perennial contender near his home. In the second choice, it is because he thinks he'd rather play for what could be a serious title contender instead of one of the worst teams in basketball.

He'd get paid anywhere.

Those choices seem like perfectly rational choices that anyone would make.
 

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No, I think those reasons show that T-Mac wants to win.

It's funny too, because the same people that whine about him putting up gaudy stats on a bad team are the ones that whine about him being selfish because he wants to be on a winning team.

Can't have it both ways folks.
 

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Tmac is selfish like every player is selfish. That is, every player wants as much money as they can get. What separates Tmac is that he seems to want to win, as leaving Toronto and Orlando should make you believe.

So he's probably one of the less selfish players in the league. It baffles me that people still call him selfish.
 

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Toronto was a playoff team when he left them, Orlando a lottery team that gutted itself to get him (Maggette, Wallace, Atkins, Mercer, Harpring among others let go). The first year he was gone Toronto was a inch away from the conference finals. Grant Hill was no better than Vince Carter, and they had no Antonio Davis, Willis or Oakley in the paint.

He left a winner to join a loser, and when they became the worse team in the league (part his fault of course) he bolted.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jamel Irief</b>!
Toronto was a playoff team when he left them, Orlando a lottery team that gutted itself to get him (Maggette, Wallace, Atkins, Mercer, Harpring among others let go). The first year he was gone Toronto was a inch away from the conference finals.

He left a winner to join a loser, and when they became the worse team in the league (part his fault of course) he bolted.
He didn't leave Toronto to join a losing team. He thought he was going to team up with Grant Hill. He was perfectly ready to play second fiddle to Grant. That combo would have tore the Eastern Conference apart.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jamel Irief</b>!
Toronto was a playoff team when he left them, Orlando a lottery team that gutted itself to get him
...
Grant Hill was no better than Vince Carter, and they had no Antonio Davis, Willis or Oakley in the paint.
Grant Hill was considered a superior player to Vince Carter at that time, a top-five player. On top of that, there was lots of talk that Tim Duncan might also play for Orlando. Duncan, himself, was supposedly very torn between the two opportunities before finally staying with David Robinson and the Spurs.

Orlando definitely appeared to be the superior opportunity.

And the year before McGrady left (a year he could actually evaluate, unlike the future), they weren't an inch from the conference finals. That year was the year they played the Knicks in the first round and Carter disappeared while McGrady played very well in a Knicks sweep.

He left a winner to join a loser, and when they became the worse team in the league (part his fault of course) he bolted.
He left a mediocre team to join a team that would have been one of the conference elite had Hill not been injured in career-ending style, effectively.

And he had no fault at all in Orlando being one of the worst teams in the league. He was the only bright spot for that team.
 

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He wants to have the experience of playing with a great player and getting more wins.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!


Grant Hill was considered a superior player to Vince Carter at that time, a top-five player. On top of that, there was lots of talk that Tim Duncan might also play for Orlando. Duncan, himself, was supposedly very torn between the two opportunities before finally staying with David Robinson and the Spurs.

Orlando definitely appeared to be the superior opportunity.

And the year before McGrady left (a year he could actually evaluate, unlike the future), they weren't an inch from the conference finals. That year was the year they played the Knicks in the first round and Carter disappeared while McGrady played very well in a Knicks sweep.



He left a mediocre team to join a team that would have been one of the conference elite had Hill not been injured in career-ending style, effectively.

And he had no fault at all in Orlando being one of the worst teams in the league. He was the only bright spot for that team.
Carter was going to be the future superstar of the league at the time, and definately top 10 before Tmac left and pre injuries. He was a lot more aggressive before his injuries in attacking. Duncan wasn't going to come there by the time McGrady entered the picture, if Duncan came, it would have been Duncan and Hill; with McGrady forced to go to Chicago.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Minstrel</b>!


Grant Hill was considered a superior player to Vince Carter at that time, a top-five player. On top of that, there was lots of talk that Tim Duncan might also play for Orlando. Duncan, himself, was supposedly very torn between the two opportunities before finally staying with David Robinson and the Spurs.
Of course Hill was a superior player, but in the same way that say Marbury is superior to Baron Davis. Leaving Carter, Davis, Oakley, Williams and Peterson to play with Armstrong, Hill, Miller and Ameachi is not like leaving the Clippers for the Spurs.

And the year before McGrady left (a year he could actually evaluate, unlike the future), they weren't an inch from the conference finals. That year was the year they played the Knicks in the first round and Carter disappeared while McGrady played very well in a Knicks sweep.
I know.

However that year the Magic missed the playoffs and let two starters walk (Mercer, Wallace) let two good backups walk (Billups, Atkins), and traded a couple other valuable backups for scraps (Magette, Strong, Harpring). They added Hill, Miller and McGrady, and had Hill not been injured I'm sure they would of done better than losing in round 1, but the team he left was an inch from the conference finals when they lost him and only added Morris Peterson. Had they had Tmac I'm sure they make the conference finals with ease and possibly lose to the Lakers in the finals.

He left a mediocre team to join a team that would have been one of the conference elite had Hill not been injured in career-ending style, effectively.
See above. That medicore team was much better than any team TMac has ever played for in his career.

And he had no fault at all in Orlando being one of the worst teams in the league. He was the only bright spot for that team.
The superstar, most valuable player on the team isn't responsible for the teams performance? Had they won 50 games like many predicted would of it been because of Howard, Lue and Gooden? I didn't know these guys were the difference between 50 and 19 wins.

EVERYONE, even the guys who don't play, are responsible for the team success AND failure.
 

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No. Every player wants to get paid, you cant blame him for wanting to win.

McGrady left Toronto in hopes of playing with Tim Duncan and/or Grant Hill, who were top 5-10 players at the time, and Duncan was on his way to becoming the perennial most valuable player in the league. The future of a franchise built around a dominant big man like Duncan and the best guard in the basketball like McGrady is obviously better off than the Raptors would have been had McGrady stayed.

McGrady left the worst team in the league to join up with the most dominant up and coming big man in the game and one of the best coaches in the game.

The way he reacted in those two scenarios makes me think he wants to win. I dont see how anyone could think otherwise unless they just dont like the guy and refuse to look at the situation logically.
 

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The superstar, most valuable player on the team isn't responsible for the teams performance? Had they won 50 games like many predicted would of it been because of Howard, Lue and Gooden? I didn't know these guys were the difference between 50 and 19 wins.

thats true

but seriously, i thought the reason he left was because he wasnt feelin canada? maybe its just me but i get the feeling nobody likes to play there - and if i bolted and people said i was selfish in doing so, i wouldnt really care...
 

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There was also a point at the last minute to help convice Duncan to come to Orlando that both Tracy and Hill agreed that they would take a pay cut just so all three of them can fit into the cap.

To say that McGrady is self is absurd. He really wants to win.
 

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Originally posted by <b>BLUE CHIP</b>!
There was also a point at the last minute to help convice Duncan to come to Orlando that both Tracy and Hill agreed that they would take a pay cut just so all three of them can fit into the cap.

To say that McGrady is self is absurd. He really wants to win.
Dude, I'm sooooooo gona steal your avatar.:sleep:
 

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Originally posted by <b>Jamel Irief</b>!


Of course Hill was a superior player, but in the same way that say Marbury is superior to Baron Davis. Leaving Carter, Davis, Oakley, Williams and Peterson to play with Armstrong, Hill, Miller and Ameachi is not like leaving the Clippers for the Spurs.
No, it wasn't like leaving a terrible team for a great team. It was like leaving a mediocre team for a team that seemed to everyone to have a bright future. Plus, it was also playing for his home-town team. Plenty of good reason for that switch.

They added Hill, Miller and McGrady, and had Hill not been injured I'm sure they would of done better than losing in round 1, but the team he left was an inch from the conference finals when they lost him and only added Morris Peterson. Had they had Tmac I'm sure they make the conference finals with ease and possibly lose to the Lakers in the finals.
Probably true. The difference is that the future you outlined for the Magic was visible to most, whereas no one knew the Raptors were so close to a possible Finals appearance. There was nothing in that last Carter/McGrady season that suggested it.

Strange things happen. I don't see the point in using an unpredictable outcome to retroactively criticize a move. From everything that people had to work with at the time of the decision, it seemed like a very sound one.

See above. That medicore team was much better than any team TMac has ever played for in his career.
For one season. And mostly due to the unexpectedness of Hill never having a healthy season after that point and John Gabriel blowing every transaction.

The superstar, most valuable player on the team isn't responsible for the teams performance?
Not if he plays like a superstar. Then the onus is on his teammates. McGrady played as well as any player in the league for his years in Orlando. Not a whole lot more he could have done.

Had they won 50 games like many predicted would of it been because of Howard, Lue and Gooden? I didn't know these guys were the difference between 50 and 19 wins.
You weren't alone. Everyone overpredicted those players. And underrated their losses, like Darrell Armstrong and Mike Miller.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Ravnos</b>!
Tracy McGrady wanted to leave Toronto to play with Grant Hill and the Orlando Magic. Tracy McGrady also wanted to leave Orlando to play with Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets.

Based on those facts, is it reasonable for someone to arrive at the conclusion that McGrady is selfish? Keep in mind that this isn't asking whether you think McGrady actually is selfish, just whether those facts are enough of a reason to believe he is.
Ravnos, you're ridiculous. I can't believe you actually had to go and create a poll just because you can't accept the fact that I think McGrady's selfish. It's too bad you don't know why I feel that way. You can assume whatever you want to about it. Bottom line is, I'm probably a bigger T-Mac fan than you are and I still think he's selfish. Got that?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Re: Are these good enough reasons to believe McGrady is selfish?

Originally posted by <b>Rockstone</b>!


Ravnos, you're ridiculous. I can't believe you actually had to go and create a poll just because you can't accept the fact that I think McGrady's selfish. It's too bad you don't know why I feel that way. You can assume whatever you want to about it.
Rockstone, the reasons you gave for believing T-Mac is selfish are the reasons I listed in the first post here. Even when I asked you to explain more about why you think T-Mac is selfish, you refused. So what else are people supposed to judge your reasoning on? Why keep your reasons such a mystery?

Bottom line is, I'm probably a bigger T-Mac fan than you are and I still think he's selfish. Got that?
Your thinking that you are a bigger T-Mac fan than I am doesn't make your opinion any more reasonable.
 
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