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do better
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Discussion Starter #1
...?

And for that matter this can meander into power forward rankings because I have to admit Kevin Love is just firmly better than him at this point...will that ever change?
 

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Better Call Saul
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He's not a finished product by any means but he's certainly correctable at this point. Learn to hit open jumpers, learn to play the pick 'n roll, and improve defensively. It's doable.
 

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Your Humble Homer
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I think he'll be a better version of Amare Stoudemire, if that's saying much. I really don't see Griffin ever becoming a game-changer with his play on the defensive end. But you would think, a guy as athletic as Griffin, should become a great shot-blocker.
 

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Limehouse Blues
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He has a lot of holes in his game, but it is mostly stuff that can be fixed with dedication and coaching. This is up to him in large part. He has all of the physical tools, but not enough skill or touch.
 

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Welcome to the Grindhouse!
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...?

And for that matter this can meander into power forward rankings because I have to admit Kevin Love is just firmly better than him at this point...will that ever change?

I disagree.
 

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BBB.net Archivist
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Why did you mention Kevin Love? We know where this thread is going now...
 

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Premium Member
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It's one of those things where people are going to be on both sides of this argument, and both sides are going to feel pretty good about their opinion. His physical skills are off the charts, his ballhandling ability for somebody his size is INCREDIBLE, and he is extremely creative finishing around the rim. But people who think he is what he is do not see him developing his jump shot, and don't see him improving on defense.

With that said, and it's pretty obvious, I'm on the same side with everybody who thinks he's going to keep developing. He works hard, he has the tools, Chris Paul is a fantastic guy to have around keeping him honest, and frankly I think he wants it. He showed some heart playing against Zach Randolph in the playoffs, even though Randolph beat up on him at times. His defense just needs to be properly motivated, because he can play defense when he's 100% into it. Even if this is who he is, he's an exciting and appreciable player. Franchise Player is probably a bit strong, but you can win a championship with him as your 2nd best player already in my opinion.
 

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Mammal
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BlakeJesus said:
It's one of those things where people are going to be on both sides of this argument, and both sides are going to feel pretty good about their opinion. His physical skills are off the charts, his ballhandling ability for somebody his size is INCREDIBLE, and he is extremely creative finishing around the rim. But people who think he is what he is do not see him developing his jump shot, and don't see him improving on defense.

With that said, and it's pretty obvious, I'm on the same side with everybody who thinks he's going to keep developing. He works hard, he has the tools, Chris Paul is a fantastic guy to have around keeping him honest, and frankly I think he wants it. He showed some heart playing against Zach Randolph in the playoffs, even though Randolph beat up on him at times. His defense just needs to be properly motivated, because he can play defense when he's 100% into it. Even if this is who he is, he's an exciting and appreciable player. Franchise Player is probably a bit strong, but you can win a championship with him as your 2nd best player already in my opinion.
To add to this, I've had a feeling so far this season, from the few Clippers games I've caught, that the rise in Deandre Jordan's popularity places a small chip on Blake's shoulders as well. That's not to say Deandre Jordan is endangering Blake Griffin's job, just that it certainly does help to have terrific players like him, Chris Paul, and Jamal Crawford around whose presence holds his development accountable. Not so sure that's a privilege Kevin Love has.
 

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do better
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Discussion Starter #13
How is that the case when Love is looked at as the unquestioned best player on his team and just got off the Olympic team...we're not talking about Paul Millsap he can't slack off and no one care.

He definitely has incentive to maintain a certain level of play if not his teammates
 

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Mammal
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It's not that he isn't properly incentivized, it's that Blake Griffin plays in a larger market where there are other players who are known to be higher caliber. Their expectations when it comes to winning are higher than those of the Minnesota Timberwolves.
 

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Mammal
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But let's not get too caught up on Love; what mold do you guys see Blake forming into? Seuss had mentioned him being a slightly better Amar'e Stoudemire.

Appropriate YouTube moment

 

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If he can work out that jumpshot he'll be a rich man's Amare. Better reoubounder, better passer, thicker frame, and less crazy.
 

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:gay: Care to say why
Because there are two different NBAs and it is funny that the opinions on Blake Griffin changed when he transitioned to the other NBA. Playing meaningless 82 game seasons in which your opponents don't take you seriously is very different then the expectations upon Blake Griffin. As such both players are being compared in totally different situations. What is lost on people is that Blake Griffin performed as well as Love did last year except he was doing it in a vastly more challenging situation.

One thing none of the Love fans seem to want to mention is how well his "crappy ass" teammates have played with him on the sidelines. However, since that does not support their narrative that Kevin Love was doing something so wonderful last season they (and national media types) are ignoring it. I know most people don't watch many T'Wolves games simply by how they refer to Kevin Love. I have watched plenty since the Grizzlies were the team that gave him up. I have seen plenty of great players in bad situations and you still FEEL their impact during games in which their teams are over matched like CP3 on those horrible Hornet teams. I have never gotten that vibe from Kevin Love.

Like it was said above, Griffin has proven a capable #2 on a contending team. That is more than Kevin Love has done. Griffin also has an ability to create his own offense. Griffin unfortunately has not had a high level NBA coach yet, so we will see about him defensively but after seeing ZBo transition from pathetic to at least a net zero defender, I think defense is more of a team thing.
 

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Your argument that Blake's situation is more challenging than Love's situation is specious. Chris Paul is clearly the leader of that team and thus removes all or at least most of the responsibility of leadership and pressure from Blake. It's also simply a better team than the one in Minnesota, with more veteran leaders and proven players. Blake is in a great situation. The only thing holding him back is the fact that his coach is terrible and there are just better teams in the Western Conference right now.

I will say that Kevin Love isn't really suited to be the primary option on a contending team. But to me, the argument over who is a better player (at least at a specific position) boils down to who I'd rather have on my team. If I have a franchise guy like Chris Paul, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, etc., then I want Kevin Love. He's a more consistent rebounder, and has a more translatable skill-set than Blake does.

Blake struggles in the half-court. He's great for those run-and-gun alley-oops, but when that's the primary function of your game, I'm really not sure how far you can go in terms of being a truly great player rather than another Shawn Kemp. And I don't mean that as an insult.

To me, I don't want either guy as my "franchise player", but I think that term is thrown around kind of loosely anyways. I guess it kind of depends on your definition of franchise player, though. In NBA terms, to me at least, a franchise player is one who guarantees you a competitive playoff team by just being on your roster. I don't think Blake does that. There are only a few franchise players in this league, and I'd boil the list down to Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Kevin Durant, with Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony being on the fringe of that list.
 

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Derrick Rose is on the fringe of being a franchise player? Give me a break... one MVP and two years in a row of leading his team to the best record in the league... obviously he doesn't have a ring but I thought we were beyond the point where people would question whether he was a franchise player.
 
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