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YIKES just saw the news on Steve McElvene. This has been a rough offseason for Dayton.

Small ball going to be the game for Dayton. Archie going to have to be creative.

What is with the Canadian thing for Fordham...pretty odd priorities for Pecora not that it surprises me whatsoever.
 

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UD already was not going to be real deep in the middle, but this makes us outright thin inside. Robinson and Scott are going to get a ton of minutes. Pollard and Pierre play bigger than their size, but it's not the same as having another 6-9 or 6-10 guy. This should be interesting. Scott is foul prone, and I see that getting us in a pinch sometimes.
 

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UD already was not going to be real deep in the middle, but this makes us outright thin inside. Robinson and Scott are going to get a ton of minutes. Pollard and Pierre play bigger than their size, but it's not the same as having another 6-9 or 6-10 guy. This should be interesting. Scott is foul prone, and I see that getting us in a pinch sometimes.
What is the deal with the scholarships? Archie has one too many. I hope for Dayton's sake that Scott or Robinson aren't transferring or worse losing their scholarships. I just say on your board that there a rumor about Jalen being suspended or something?
 

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For all the depth on the wings, UD is going to have a lot to figure out early on.

Never thought I'd say this, but Matt Kavanaugh is really going to be missed--at least for a little while. Dude was no world beater but you knew what you were getting every game out.
 

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If Dayton would have counted on McElvene at all this year, things were not going to end well.

I don't fear the loss of a guy who no one wanted on the floor for more than 5 minutes per night any way. They'll figure out how to cover that hole.
 

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For all the depth on the wings, UD is going to have a lot to figure out early on.

Never thought I'd say this, but Matt Kavanaugh is really going to be missed--at least for a little while. Dude was no world beater but you knew what you were getting every game out.
My exact thought as well. Not much depth at all.
 

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If Dayton would have counted on McElvene at all this year, things were not going to end well.

I don't fear the loss of a guy who no one wanted on the floor for more than 5 minutes per night any way. They'll figure out how to cover that hole.
I get your point, but I said what I did given the already-thin front court getting thinner. No, McElvene wasn't going to start or even play in all the games, but he was a big body Miller could throw out there to be a statute for two minutes a half.
 

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I get your point, but I said what I did given the already-thin front court getting thinner. No, McElvene wasn't going to start or even play in all the games, but he was a big body Miller could throw out there to be a statute for two minutes a half.
And now he'll put in a walkon to do much the same thing in garbage time. If McElvene's game was remotely ready for college, I'd be a bit bummed. But it wasn't. He was going to have no impact at all.

I don't know how "thin" UD's front court will be. It won't be tall, but it's silly to think there are only 2 guys who can play inside. Pierre will play quite a bit of PF, similar to Oliver last year. He's probably a bit taller than VCU's starting C (for comparison) and is very efficient around the bucket. Pollard and Rogers will see time inside. Both should be fine, especially on the glass. Pierre and Rogers especially will help spread the opposing defense. Archie will mix things up and find matchups that will succeed. It's what he did last year. All of this would have happened even if McElvene were eligible. Big Steve wasn't going to get minutes. He's a center only, and very, very raw (and out of shape).

Long term, this will be a blessing in disguise for the kid. He wasn't ready. It was going to be a tough year for him. Many kids have never come back from riding pine for a year while in uniform. Now as a virtual redshirt he can attack the year with a new mindset.
 

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And now he'll put in a walkon to do much the same thing in garbage time. If McElvene's game was remotely ready for college, I'd be a bit bummed. But it wasn't. He was going to have no impact at all.

I don't know how "thin" UD's front court will be. It won't be tall, but it's silly to think there are only 2 guys who can play inside. Pierre will play quite a bit of PF, similar to Oliver last year. He's probably a bit taller than VCU's starting C (for comparison) and is very efficient around the bucket. Pollard and Rogers will see time inside. Both should be fine, especially on the glass. Pierre and Rogers especially will help spread the opposing defense. Archie will mix things up and find matchups that will succeed. It's what he did last year. All of this would have happened even if McElvene were eligible. Big Steve wasn't going to get minutes. He's a center only, and very, very raw (and out of shape).

Long term, this will be a blessing in disguise for the kid. He wasn't ready. It was going to be a tough year for him. Many kids have never come back from riding pine for a year while in uniform. Now as a virtual redshirt he can attack the year with a new mindset.
Adam, I tend to agree. Archie knew Gavs was transferring and that Big Steve was going to be questionable early on. There were plenty of bodies to be had in the 5th year transfer pool if that's what Archie wanted. A10LaSalle55 and a few other posters are more worried about post depth than Archie. UD still has a lot of talent and talent with PT in the NCAA E8 run.
 

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I don't disagree with the possibility of it being a bit of a blessing in disguise.

And I'm not worried with UD's offensive production. The A10 has some bruising bigs and it's the defense that I'd be a little concerned with.

We will see. UD is hardly the only team with a question mark or ten. SJU didn't have any front court (or backcourt) depth last year so it's not like it's necessary to win.
 

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If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the A10 is not a league of great big men. There's like 4 of them I would consider better than average. This is a guards league. Has been since I started paying attention when Dayton joined.

No one will confuse UD with a great defensive team, but they should be OK.

I am a bit worried about matching up in a potential NCAA tourney game, but I don't think size will be an issue in the A10. It's about execution. If Dayton plays and develops the way they should, they'll win 13-15 league games. I expect an efficient offense that most teams simply can't keep up with.
 

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If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the A10 is not a league of great big men. There's like 4 of them I would consider better than average.
Not arguing your main point per se -- the A-10 is a guards league -- but I think you might be exaggerating the weakness of its bigs.

Off the top of my head, I can think of more than 4 who are better than average.

Heck, LaSalle has 2 by itself in Wright and Zack.

Ndoye is the league's best true center, IMHO.

Larsen at GW is way better than average. He's a load.

Lalanne doesn't always play hard, but when he does, 6-10 and 255 is hard to stop.

Richmond has a good one in Terry Allen.

Biruta and Hassan Martin are both better than average.

Alie-Cox is raw, but already way better than average defensively.

And while I might be biased, Jalen Jenkins looks to me like an emerging star.

No offense to anyone else, but that's 10 guys who are better than any of Dayton's bigs. Whether that makes any difference, who knows?
 

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Yeah, the A10 has improved as a league and you can see this in the increase in both number and quality of the bigs in the conference.

Granted a lot of this is thanks to transfers (Kanacevic, Armwood, and Biruta come to mind even though I'm not much of a Biruta fan, but he's a better big than the horrid bigs of a10 past), but there are a lot more and better ones.
 

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I think you are confusing stats and playing time with quality. There are many, many below average players who can put up a respectable line in a box score, especially when a high percentage of games are against inferior competition.

There are but a handful of bigs in this league who can consistently succeed without guards breaking down an opponent and feeding them lollipops. Chris Gaston and Andrew Nicholson aren't walking through that door. I think NDoye will be the best big in the league, but he averaged 10 points last year. Decent number, but not WOW. One game he was great, next game he struggled a bit. His guards couldn't consistently set him up to succeed. I don't think he averages as much as people think he will this year. Doesn't mean he failed to make a leap, it probably will mean his guards kinda suck. Conversely, watch as people fall in love with Allie-Cox. He'll be ok, but people will fawn over how he cleans up inside with points and boards, ignoring or completely missing how his guards will do 80% of the work, on both ends.

This is a guards league. As a whole, basketball is a guards game. Win the guard play and you win the game almost every time.
 

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I think you are confusing stats and playing time with quality. There are many, many below average players who can put up a respectable line in a box score, especially when a high percentage of games are against inferior competition.

There are but a handful of bigs in this league who can consistently succeed without guards breaking down an opponent and feeding them lollipops. Chris Gaston and Andrew Nicholson aren't walking through that door. I think NDoye will be the best big in the league, but he averaged 10 points last year. Decent number, but not WOW. His guards couldn't set him up to succeed. I don't think he averages as much as people think he will this year. Doesn't mean he's struggling, it means his guards kinda suck.

This is a guards league. As a whole, basketball is a guards game. Win the guard play and you win the game almost every time.
OK, so which of the 10 I cited would you consider below average? And please show your work.
 

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The A10 is and always has been a guard-dominated conference. Still, not having any decent player inside is a huge liability. Cady Lalanne, as disappointing as he can be, will have a banner day when Dayton comes to Amherst.
 

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Only 4 bigs above average come on now thats ridiculous. The A10 isn't the Big 12 or Pac12 in terms of bigs but there are a number of very good bigs.

Hassan Martin is one of the best rising bigs in the conference. His numbers are right behind Embiids last season.

Wright is an absolute monster inside.

Larsen was only a sophomore and if he only slightly above average in your eyes can you imagine the seasons he going to have as a junior and senior.

Lalanne is another quality big men I just think how the season ended for UMass didn't make it seem that way but he one of the best in the A10. His length is crazy.

Zack lead the A10 in rebounds, is a great defender and posted I think 12 or so double doubles good for top ten in the nation.

I loved Halil and hated him at the same time. His game as a big man didn't always show up in a stat sheet but I wouldn't say he was average. What is better then having a big who pretty good inside who can shoot.

Ndoye is the best center in the league.

Thats 7 right there 6 of which are returning. Terry Allen, Mo Allie Cox, Nelson-Adoda and Jake Belford are three big men on the rise. Biruta I would say had an average season but definitely improved as the season progressed. He should be a really good big for URI this season. Then you have Julian Royal, Cline and Jordan Hare(returning) entering the conference as well. Also its hard to imagine between Glaze, Manning and Lancona one doesn't step up and emerge as a quality big.

Name me one A10 team from the past 2 years that made the NCAA tournament that didn't have good big man?
 

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Only 4 bigs above average come on now thats ridiculous. The A10 isn't the Big 12 or Pac12 in terms of bigs but there are a number of very good bigs.

Hassan Martin is one of the best rising bigs in the conference. His numbers are right behind Embiids last season.

Wright is an absolute monster inside.

Larsen was only a sophomore and if he only slightly above average in your eyes can you imagine the seasons he going to have as a junior and senior.

Lalanne is another quality big men I just think how the season ended for UMass didn't make it seem that way but he one of the best in the A10. His length is crazy.

Zack lead the A10 in rebounds, is a great defender and posted I think 12 or so double doubles good for top ten in the nation.

I loved Halil and hated him at the same time. His game as a big man didn't always show up in a stat sheet but I wouldn't say he was average. What is better then having a big who pretty good inside who can shoot.

Ndoye is the best center in the league.

Thats 7 right there. Terry Allen, Mo Allie Cox, Nelson-Adoda and Jake Belford are three big men on the rise. Biruta I would say had an average season but definitely improved as the season progressed. He should be a really good big for URI this season. Then you have Julian Royal, Cline and Jordan Hare(returning) entering the conference as well. Also its hard to imagine between Glaze, Manning and Lancona one doesn't step up and emerge as a quality big.

Name me one A10 team from the past 2 years that made the NCAA tournament that didn't have good big man?
Not sure where the cutoff of good is, but depending on one's view of Rob Loe I could possibly give you 2.
 

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Not sure where the cutoff of good is, but depending on one's view of Rob Loe I could possibly give you 2.
Ahhh shit, I didn't mean to put players on there who graduated but I put Halil on there by mistake. Meant to keep it about players returning. Rob Loe for sure was absolutely an above average big. Talk about a big who made very few mistakes and had probably one of the highest IQs on the court.
 
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