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As to the point "above average big men" in this league, that in and of itself is a pretty relative brush to paint players with.

My point (and Adam's) is there aren't many big men in this league, or all of the NCAA for that matter anymore, that can take over a game in the paint and will their team to win.
Not trying to be a douche here, truly, but words do have meaning.

Adam never stated that "there aren't many big men in this league that can take over a game in the paint and will their team to win."

Had he said that, I don't think anyone would've argued the point.

What he said was, and I quote, "If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the A10 is not a league of great big men. There's like 4 of them I would consider better than average."

I already went through and picked out 10 guys who I think are "better than average" either offensively, defensively or both.

Instead of moving the goalposts, why not tell me specifically where I'm wrong?
 

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Not trying to be a douche here, truly, but words do have meaning.

Adam never stated that "there aren't many big men in this league that can take over a game in the paint and will their team to win."

Had he said that, I don't think anyone would've argued the point.

What he said was, and I quote, "If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the A10 is not a league of great big men. There's like 4 of them I would consider better than average."

I already went through and picked out 10 guys who I think are "better than average" either offensively, defensively or both.

Instead of moving the goalposts, why not tell me specifically where I'm wrong?
Well, what do you mean by average? It is completely possibly you two have different ideas about what the constitutes the average big man and are just squabbling over nothing.

Are we talking about better than the average big man in all of D1? If that is the case most of the big men in the A10 are above average. Are we talking about average for the A10? In that case, there are probably 4 or 5 who are comfortably above the average A10 big man. Are we talking average for the BCS + A10? I don't know how many of our big men would be above average in that case.
 

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Well, what do you mean by average? It is completely possibly you two have different ideas about what the constitutes the average big man and are just squabbling over nothing.

Are we talking about better than the average big man in all of D1? If that is the case most of the big men in the A10 are above average. Are we talking about average for the A10? In that case, there are probably 4 or 5 who are comfortably above the average A10 big man. Are we talking average for the BCS + A10? I don't know how many of our big men would be above average in that case.
I assumed he was talking about an above average big man for the A10.

If that's the standard, who are your 4 or 5?
 

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I assumed he was talking about an above average big man for the A10.

If that's the standard, who are your 4 or 5?
I would have to think about it for a bit, I never really focused on watching the big men in this league and how they preformed, I always have watched the the team as a whole. My point was that statistically there are probably only 4-5 big men that are above average in the A10 by the definition of average.

There are probably about 20 'big men' in the conference who actually contribute to their teams, and assuming their skills are distributed normally there are probably about 5 below average, around 10 in the middle, and 5 above average.
 

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Not trying to be a douche here, truly, but words do have meaning.

Adam never stated that "there aren't many big men in this league that can take over a game in the paint and will their team to win."

Had he said that, I don't think anyone would've argued the point.

What he said was, and I quote, "If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's that the A10 is not a league of great big men. There's like 4 of them I would consider better than average."

I already went through and picked out 10 guys who I think are "better than average" either offensively, defensively or both.

Instead of moving the goalposts, why not tell me specifically where I'm wrong?
I see your point and you aren't wrong BUT, that's how I took it to mean. We were told by a certain fan on here over and over last year that Matt Kavs was the worst player to step foot on the court in the whole league so what changes this year for Dayton? Nothing.

If we're arguing the point that Dayton is very small and thin in the paint this year yet at the same time it won't matter, then what are we discussing here?

That's really the point...what's the def of an above average big man? Imo, a player that fits that def is clearly Zack from LaSalle and he hardly strikes fear in me as a Dayton fan as a player that is going to be the tipping point when we play them.

CBB is won and lost at the three point line now days, plain and simple. I hate even bringing up Xavier at this point but they are a perfect example of this last year. Stainbrook was better then ANY big man (maybe save Reddic at time) in the A10 last year. A true 6'10"+ back to the basket big man...but when your team has a bunch of games where you only hit 2-3 three pointers, you're gonna have issues, no matter how good you are in the paint or how big you are. I look around the A10 and see a bunch of Kavs, Robinsons and Scotts in this league and they aren't the ones deciding who wins A10 games.


I guess it truly comes down to what your def of average is but I'm saying, average is pretty low now days in CBB when it comes to big men. IMO, a Nicholson was WAY above average for a big man, not only in the A10 but in all of college basketball.
 

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Well, what do you mean by average? It is completely possibly you two have different ideas about what the constitutes the average big man and are just squabbling over nothing.

Are we talking about better than the average big man in all of D1? If that is the case most of the big men in the A10 are above average. Are we talking about average for the A10? In that case, there are probably 4 or 5 who are comfortably above the average A10 big man. Are we talking average for the BCS + A10? I don't know how many of our big men would be above average in that case.
I guess I should have read your post before typing out my drivel....lol.
 

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I took a quick look at the statistics, and while they don't tell the whole story this is what I found. I took the top 2 big men from each team in the conference last year and ranked them based on their effective field goal percentage, rebounding percentages and block percentages. All the stats you look for in a traditional good big man.

Here are where the stats end up out of the top 26 big men:

Heck, LaSalle has 2 by itself in Wright and Zack.
Jerrel Wright: 6th in eFG%, 3rd in OR%, 19th in DR%, 26th in Blk%
Steve Zach: 25th in eFG%, 11th in OR%, 2nd in DR%, 10th in Blk%

Neither one is an all star statistically. Wright is an offensive threat, Zach is a defensive presence. Maybe if you were able to combine them into one person....

Ndoye is the league's best true center, IMHO.
Ndoye: 17 in eFG%, 20th in OR%, 13th in DR%, 2nd in Blk%

From the stats it seems he isn't a consistent offensive threat compared to other big men in the conference, and he seems to be an average to below average rebounder. He is mostly just a shot blocker.

Larsen at GW is way better than average. He's a load.
Kevin Larson: 10th in eFG%, 15th in OR%, 21st in DR%, 24th in Blk%

The stats make him seem completely mediocre, or even below average.

Lalanne doesn't always play hard, but when he does, 6-10 and 255 is hard to stop.
Cady Lalanne: 9th in eFG%, 7th in OR%, 14th in DR%, 8th in Blk%

This is the first guy in the list who is above average in 3 of the 4 stats I looked at, and isn't too bad at the 4th stat either.

Richmond has a good one in Terry Allen.
Terry Allen: 13th in eFG%, 19th in OR%, 9th in DR%, 23rd in Blk%

Biruta and Hassan Martin are both better than average.
Biruta: 20th in eFG%, 8th in OR%, 9th in DR%, 21st in Blk%
Hassan: 11th in eFG%, 23rd in OR%, 15th in DR%, 4th in Blk%

Hassan is the offensive threat (but also shot blocking?), Biruta is the rebounder. Seems similar to La Salle with Zach and Wright, neither put up great stats across the board individually.

Alie-Cox is raw, but already way better than average defensively.
Mo Alie-Cox: 15th in eFG%, 6th in OR%, 22nd in DR%, 1st in Blk%

A crazy athlete, could be a monster if he can become more efficient on offense.

Here are the top 3 preformers for each stat:

eFG%: Ryan Rhomes (by a long shot, he made like 66% of his shots), Ronald Roberts, Dominque McKoy.

OR%: Ifeanyi Onyekaba, Ryan Canty, Jerrel Wright

DR%: Ryan Canty, Steve Zach, Halil Kanacevic

Blk%: Mo Alie-Cox, Youssou Ndoye, Alonzo Nelson-Ododa

Top 5 player statistically (based on arbitrary summing of z-scores):
Ryan Canty, Ryan Rhomes, Eric Copes (only player above average in all statisitcal categories!), Mo Alie-Cox, Cady Lalanne.

Watch out for Fordham!

*I KNOW STATISTICS ISN'T EVERYTHING* but they certainly can be interesting
 

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Here is where Nicholson and Gaston would have been:

Nicholson: 2nd in eFG%, 6th in OR%, 3rd in DR%, 4th in Blk%
Gaston: 25th in eFG%, 7th in OR%, 2nd in DR%, 6th in Blk%
 

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Nicholson was one of the best players I've ever had the displeasure of watching.

When Gaston wasn't limping around the court he was an absolute monster.

Nicholson also had the benefit of not playing for Fordham.
 

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@mm4cc

Any list that would include Erik Copes among the top 5 bigs in the A-10 should be considered irrelevant.

I'm hopeful he'll have a monster senior season, but based purely on his first three, he's been a bust. Stats that show him as being effective are proof that sometimes numbers do lie.
 

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Top 5 player statistically (based on arbitrary summing of z-scores):
Ryan Canty, Ryan Rhomes, Eric Copes (only player above average in all statisitcal categories!), Mo Alie-Cox, Cady Lalanne.

Watch out for Fordham!

*I KNOW STATISTICS ISN'T EVERYTHING* but they certainly can be interesting
Lies, damn lies and statistics. Kidding aside, I had wanted to mention Ryan Canty, but I think his body of work is somewhat limited. I think he has the potential to be one of the best big men in the conference, but something seems to hold him back every season. Last season it was the personal leave of absence he took and this season it will be the back surgery he just had. He should be back for conference play, but he will obviously be rusty. He is a tremendous athlete for a guy 6'10", can be a monster on the boards when he puts his mind to it and is a good shot blocker, though not sure the stats back that up. He has a very limited offensive game though. Anything beyond a dunk is a crap shoot.
 

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I think you are confusing stats and playing time with quality. There are many, many below average players who can put up a respectable line in a box score, especially when a high percentage of games are against inferior competition.

There are but a handful of bigs in this league who can consistently succeed without guards breaking down an opponent and feeding them lollipops. Chris Gaston and Andrew Nicholson aren't walking through that door. I think NDoye will be the best big in the league, but he averaged 10 points last year. Decent number, but not WOW.
Lots of posts on this topic, figured I'd start close to the source. The crux of the debate here is how much of a problem Dayton's lack of size and depth in the front court is going to be a problem for them?

I do agree that the A10 is a guard dominated league, but last year there were a handful of bigs that could do damage on their own and I expect it to be similar this year with some new names likely to emerge. Lalanne, Esho, Wright, Larsen are names that come to mind. Players who've left include Reddic, Evans, Kanacevic.

The other part of this is that you need players (presumably big men) to rebound, otherwise you'll get killed on the glass and the A10 does have big men that can grab offensive rebounds and score on put-backs if you don't stop them.

I'm guessing Dayton's offense doesn't lean too heavily on its bigs? So offensively it shouldn't be much of a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
College basketball's preseason crunch ends as real season push begins

Havoc is not created in a day, at least not the sort that Shaka Smart would like to wreak. VCU's brand of mayhem takes time to build and time is not something basketball coaches always had.

But now, thanks to a few NCAA rule tweaks and a reconstituted basketball calendar, Smart and his peers have a little wiggle room. Gone are the days when coaches and players sat pent up, like horses in the gates before a big race, waiting for 12:01 a.m. on Oct. 15 to see if their players actually followed their offseason conditioning program.

Coach Shaka Smart and the VCU Rams can begin team practices up to six weeks prior to their opening game against Tennessee on Nov. 14.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...season-crunch-ends-as-real-season-push-begins
 

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Discussion Starter #115
Whatever the people in VCU's athletics marketing office are being paid, it's not enough.
VCU Brandcenter, the fans & the athletic dept are in a word....relentless. Ha!
--------------------------
More from the article.....

You know, 10 years ago the first practice, the first time together was Midnight Madness, so you hadn't been together as a team for several months before that," Smart said. "There's a little less of a buildup, maybe, than there used to be, but I think overall, it's been really helpful."

Every coach, like every team, approaches his preseason run-up differently.

Smart, because of his style of play, stresses conditioning. His guys have become familiar with the torture device known as the VersaClimber, a machine that mimics climbing a tree, only there is no tree, it's not much fun and it's a lot more painful.

For the Rams, conditioning has to be a year-round commitment, but with the extra time to actually see his guys and work with them, Smart at least knows the work is getting done.

"You can't practice if you're not conditioned; it would be a waste," Smart said. "You have to get your bodies ready. Our strength coach calls it building body armor."
 

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Yeah, for the Rams conditioning is a year-round commitment. Literally no other school in the land works out in the off-season. Just pizza and beer for everyone.

The media is making me feel about VCU like they make me feel about Apple.
 

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Discussion Starter #117 (Edited)
Yeah, for the Rams conditioning is a year-round commitment. Literally no other school in the land works out in the off-season. Just pizza and beer for everyone.

The media is making me feel about VCU like they make me feel about Apple.
Come on sjhawk13.....don't hate! :yesyesyes::legoat::nono: I cannot help the media and VCU fans are delusional. Ha!
 
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