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Discussion Starter #1
I am reading todays NY Times. They have some stats on the biggest turnarounds in the history of the NBA. let me post them and the reason why the turnaround happened

97-98 Spurs were +36 at 56 wins- Tim Duncan
89-90 Spurs were +35 with 56 wins-Robinson and Elliott came back from injuries
79-80 Celtics were +32 with 61 wins-Drafting Larry Bird
69-70 Bucks were +29 with 56 wins- Kareem Abdul Jabbar
88-89 Suns were +27 with 55 wins- I think this is the year they added Tom Chambers to the roster
01-02 Nets were +26 with 52 wins- Jason Kidd
95-96 Bulls were +25 with 72 wins- Michael Jordan
91-92 Cavs were +24 with 57 wins- I believe they had a ton of injuries and everyone came back
69-70 Suns wer +23 with 39 wins- Alvan Adams?
88-89 Warriors were +23 with 43 wins - no idea. Mitch Richmond?
94-95 Mavs were +23 with 36 wins- Jason Kidd

Ok so to get to 500 is going to have to be a +20 roughly. that has happened exactly 11 times in the history of the NBA. All of these were special situations or the addition of a great player. I dont think Okafor is a +20 player, neither is Deng. There is no MLE who is a +20 player. As for trades, since we are so bad, our talent is undervalued league wide. And interestingly we can not count on being healthy as a way to increase our win total. In fact, we have been more healthy then most teams in the NBA this year.

So its a 2 or 3 year process just to compete from here. And knowing that, Pax shouldnt be closing the door on ANYONE, which is what he seems to be doing in terms of the HS kids. We should try to be adding players who will be able to help more in 2 years then next. There will be some marginal internal growth but not as much as we think there should be. But adding talent, young talent, is the way to go. Not going after vets with guaranteed contracts who wont be able to play in 2 or 3 years. This supports my thesis of dealing our number one to Boston for their entire draft and Jiri Welsh, if they would do it. And then looking hard at kids like martynas, Williams and Bogdanovic. Sure, none of those guys would start on day 1 but atleast they might be able to produce when we actually are ready to compete
 

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Im not going to predict Playoffs for next season AT THIS VERY MOMENT, but I believe the Bulls have a shot.
 

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I think you're right with one caveat.

I do think we need to try and get good players in here next season. I also think it would be fine if we could bring in an established star. Ya know, I hate it when my broker tells me, "you should by this stock, because it's just like that other one." Well, I want the other one in the first place ;-)

Do you GAMBLE (and that's what it truly is) that Chandler will turn out as good as KG, or would you rather have the real KG?

In that light, I'd rather have a for sure stud like Walker, Pierce, TMac, etc.

One other thing to bring up. It took the bulls 7 years to win a championship after getting Jordan. And Jordan put up 28.8 PPG as a rookie.

When/if we get one of our guys to put up 28.8 PPG, I think you can pretty much start that 7 year clock.

Think about it. Duncan? He had a veteran Admiral. Kobe? He had a veteran Shaq (and Shaq didn't win any faster than Jordan, eh?). And so on.
 

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But we have yet to develop one project in the history of the franchise...I guess maybe Scottie Pippen???

The Bulls have never show the ability to deal with youth and have never hired the right guys to teach.

It's no coicidence that the two best bulls in the rebuilding process were Brand and Hinrich who were already finished projects coming in.

If the franchise had a major retooling that included firing Skiles, Paxson, all of the assistant coaches, the trainers, and the mascot then I would be more receptive to drafting a project.

Any high schooler we draft we will most likely ruin.
 

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And BTW, Denver is 21+ right now and they didnt exactly add Garnett or Duncan, and Anthony isnt a superstar right now.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!
97-98 Spurs were +36 at 56 wins- Tim Duncan
also Robinson came back from injury. The only reason they were in positin to get duncan is because they year before Robinson was out for the year, With him AND duncan, they got +36. Wasnt only Duncan
 

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Discussion Starter #7
deng or okafor are going to be good players. But truly, can anyone say that they will be much better then a Marvin Williams or Martynas Andriekivicius? We have so many holes that I think a good gamble would be to add lots of players rather then putting all our eggs in one basket. Next year the goal is 32 wins.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
And BTW, Denver is 21+ right now and they didnt exactly add Garnett or Duncan, and Anthony isnt a superstar right now.
I would say Carmello is a superstar. But thanks for bringing this up. That was the reason for the article and wasnt on the list.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


I would say Carmello is a superstar. But thanks for bringing this up. That was the reason for the article and wasnt on the list.
No way he is a superstar, he isnt a can do it all player and he cant bring it night in and out.

And Memphis is 1 win away from being +20 (They play Atlanta tomorrow, so...)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!


No way he is a superstar, he isnt a can do it all player and he cant bring it night in and out.

And Memphis is 1 win away from being +20 (They play Atlanta tomorrow, so...)
i think most would argue with you on Anthony. And Anthony brings something Denver needed last year, scoring. Again, this was a kid, at 19, who most thought was robbed when he didnt make the allstar team

Memphis is about to go +20 this year which is a lock. They essentially were us last year. Both ended the years strong. both had good young talent and good balance. we got impatient and blew it up, memphis stayed the course, made a couple of good FA signings and rode West and Brown to a great turnaround. Skiles and Pax are no west or brown
 

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And Orlando is -23....maybe I missed last offseason when they traded T-Mac for Howard. My bad, they added Howard and they kept McGrady.
Maybe they should re-consider bringing Shawn Kemp back.
 

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Re: Re: Before anyone predicts playoffs next year, take a look at this

Originally posted by <b>wadecaroneddie</b>!


also Robinson came back from injury. The only reason they were in positin to get duncan is because they year before Robinson was out for the year, With him AND duncan, they got +36. Wasnt only Duncan
Bird's celtics were decimated by injuries the previous year. Not only did they draft Bird, but they got back a healthy Nate Archibald and Dave Cowens. And they had a terrific PF already in Cedric Maxwell.

The Bulls lost Theus and gained Jordan and were +9, FWIW.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!

i think most would argue with you on Anthony. And Anthony brings something Denver needed last year, scoring. Again, this was a kid, at 19, who most thought was robbed when he didnt make the allstar team

Memphis is about to go +20 this year which is a lock. They essentially were us last year. Both ended the years strong. both had good young talent and good balance. we got impatient and blew it up, memphis stayed the course, made a couple of good FA signings and rode West and Brown to a great turnaround. Skiles and Pax are no west or brown
So if you are Minnesota you would consider doing a Garnett for Carmelo? Or Duncan for Melo? Or Shaq for Melo? OK. Im not hating the guy, I was all for trading the pick plus Jay for him, but he isnt Superstar yet.

I would put it in a different way. If the Bulls would have drafted Carmelo, would they be battling for that 8th spot? I dont think so. Now, if you add Garnett, we may start talking about an 6th or 7th seed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
And Orlando is -23....maybe I missed last offseason when they traded T-Mac for Howard. My bad, they added Howard and they kept McGrady.
Maybe they should re-consider bringing Shawn Kemp back.
I cant figure Orlando out. but thats not the point of the article or thread. +20s dont happen very often. sure, it will happen twice this year but 13 times in the history of the NBA isnt much. And 95% of the cases required a special situation. There is no special situation in our horizon. There is no Anthony or Lebron in this crop. There are good players, lots of them, but all of them are 2 to 3 years away. there is no superstar FA for us. And we dont have a David Robinson sitting on the IR to look forward to next year. The east is getting better. Its going to take 38-40 wins to get in next year. We dont have the juice to even talk about it for next year
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!


So if you are Minnesota you would consider doing a Garnett for Carmelo? Or Duncan for Melo? Or Shaq for Melo? OK. Im not hating the guy, I was all for trading the pick plus Jay for him, but he isnt Superstar yet.

I would put it in a different way. If the Bulls would have drafted Carmelo, would they be battling for that 8th spot? I dont think so. Now, if you add Garnett, we may start talking about an 6th or 7th seed.
again most would argue with you. and add in Andre Miller, Boykins and Lenard and you got a change. If Anthony were a Bull, I think we could have easily been +10 to 15. And instead of 22 wins or so, we could be talking about 45 wins. If KG were a Bull, without having to give anyone up, and we would be over 50 wins
 

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Cleveland is 15+. They may reach 20+ if they go 5-3 the rest of the way.
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


again most would argue with you. and add in Andre Miller, Boykins and Lenard and you got a change. If Anthony were a Bull, I think we could have easily been +10 to 15. And instead of 22 wins or so, we could be talking about 45 wins. If KG were a Bull, without having to give anyone up, and we would be over 50 wins
So you are accepting KG and Melo are not on the same level. KG is a true superstar, Melo isnt there. He is 19, so he will reach there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!
Cleveland is 15+. They may reach 20+ if they go 5-3 the rest of the way.
again, add in lebron James and you got your win total. is there anyone out there who is a +20 player?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Originally posted by <b>curry_52</b>!


So you are accepting KG and Melo are not on the same level. KG is a true superstar, Melo isnt there. He is 19, so he will reach there.
Your missing the point. Who said they were? But Anthony is a special player. And when you can get a 20 ppg scorer without having to give anyone up, plus Miller and others, your going to get a turnaround. There is no Anthony in this years draft. And we dont have the cap space to make a run. So there will be no +20 here unless Okafor is really Bill Russell. I think he is good, but not that good
 

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Originally posted by <b>rlucas4257</b>!


Your missing the point. Who said they were? But Anthony is a special player. And when you can get a 20 ppg scorer without having to give anyone up, plus Miller and others, your going to get a turnaround. There is no Anthony in this years draft. And we dont have the cap space to make a run. So there will be no +20 here unless Okafor is really Bill Russell. I think he is good, but not that good
The NBA is full of special players and talents. Being a superstar is different.
 
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