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Last year, Ben shot an exemplary 86.3% from the line. This year to date, he's almost 10% off his pace, at 76.7%. How does that happen to a guy with such a pure shooting stroke?

It should be noted that Ben's FG% is exactly the same as it was last year, at 41.1%. His three point percentage has gone up about 2 percentage points this year, to an excellent 42.4%.

I looked at Gordon's FT stats at UConn. His percentage improved each of his three years: 72.6%, 80.8%, 82.9%.

I've often noticed that historically, good shooters usually shoot FT's well their first year in the pros. Often, their FT percentage goes up, and then plateaus and stays essentially the same for the remained of the career, until perhaps the final few years.

Does anybody have an explanation as to why Ben is so much less consistent at the line this year? The only thing I can really think of is that he doesn't get to the line that much, so the sample size really isn't that big.
 

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It's easy to kick-the-coach now that the bulls have (slightly) underperformed this year. But, Skiles appears to be the obvious answer; coach was so ready to proclaim Ben Gordon's forth quarter heroics from last season as a temporary luck streak. Perhaps the harsh-love was needed to motivate Ben to continue to develop his game? Unfortunately, while Gordon is substantially more skilled and experienced player than he was last season, his contribution has diminished. The freethrow stat is such a good indicator of Ben's mental state. Heres hoping Ben's dip is only a temporary lag, and that he re-establishes himself as the forth quarter assassin.
 

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Chandler's FT are in the tank. Much worse than last season as well. I wonder about the coach\GM angle, too. I have need seen a coach say a player needs to work on his game as much right after signing a big contract as Pax did to Chandler.
 

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such sweet thunder said:


It's easy to kick-the-coach now that the bulls have (slightly) underperformed this year. But, Skiles appears to be the obvious answer; coach was so ready to proclaim Ben Gordon's forth quarter heroics from last season as a temporary luck streak. Perhaps the harsh-love was needed to motivate Ben to continue to develop his game? Unfortunately, while Gordon is substantially more skilled and experienced player than he was last season, his contribution has diminished. The freethrow stat is such a good indicator of Ben's mental state. Heres hoping Ben's dip is only a temporary lag, and that he re-establishes himself as the forth quarter assassin.
Perhaps we can see the fruits of this in the longer-longer run, hopefully for us next year. But seeing that he is our leading scorer and it is his 3rd year, he'd probably be accused of playing for a bigger contract.

But dang is a wastin'. And all I've seen this year is a regression/lack of progress in all the players we did retain, not just Ben.

I can remember when Tyson was actually exciting to watch and not some hilariously bumbling offensive clown. Luol Deng is still arguably our most versatile and best all-around player, but he's still averaging only about 13 points a game in 5 more minutes.

None of our players have actually developed, except for the one guy were going to build with/around. No offense to his fans, but we could have Paul Pierce and KG on this team right now with them being our 2 leading scorers, heading to the playoffs, and Skiles and Pax would give Kirk most of the credit as the real glue to this team.

Does anyone find it kinda odd that Skiles has beefed most often in the media with arguably 2 players who were very instrumental in closing our wins, last year ?

Not only have most of these core players not developed, but after succeeding largely because of strong fourth quarters last year, most which Eddy and his post game wasn't a part of, and retaining our main gamebreakers, 4th quarters have suddenly become our achilles heel to the point where we lose big leads against mediocre teams ? How the hell does this happen, a complete 180 of last year ?

As Jim Ian and many others have pointed out, it's probably because they tire of the guy's tactics and antics. I was reading Skiles' comments after the loss to the Magic and all he said was something to the extent of work hard. Of course I don't know exactly what Skiles is telling his guys in person, but I don't think it really helps anyone's confidence when he calls them out for millions of people to read. His answer was to run them through a marathon practice. OK. . .I thought you were busting *** this whole year. But, you can work as hard as you want, but you're still not going to get rid of your mental block. The guy is the classic case of confusing effort for results.

If you contrast that with another "right way" guy, let's say, Ben Howland, coach of the 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament champions the, University of California Los Angeles (U.C.L.A. :raised_ey), he's quick to give credit to all the players all the time. He balances extreme affinity for the players this out by making them play hard *** defense and somewhat controlled offense (which is pretty average).

With Skiles, I see absolutely no balance to his madness. He always looks pissed off, he's always blaming his players (or in the good times just the select few --- i.e. stars, athletic guys, guys who could help our team). He hardly ever gives anyone credit. Or if he does, it's only to a select few and if he absolutely has to give credit to a player people don't think he likes, he says it in a way that downplays their achievements. I think Ben and Tyson are just reacting the best they can as humanly possible, but they're still wondering, if what they proved last year didn't count for anything at all in Skiles eyes in terms of more minutes and less pulling them out when they're not working, what will ?
 

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Perhaps we can see the fruits of this in the longer-longer run, hopefully for us next year. But seeing that he is our leading scorer and it is his 3rd year, he'd probably be accused of playing for a bigger contract.
Skiles ever accuse a player of doing that?

But dang is a wastin'. And all I've seen this year is a regression/lack of progress in all the players we did retain, not just Ben.
I find this remarkable, given:

(a) Hinrich's obvious statistical improvements;

(b) The fact that Ben Gordon has improved in ever aspect of the game except his free throw shooting (big deal) and his previous uncanny ability to take over in 4th quarters. He's not superman this season, but he's a better basketball player;

(c) Darius Songaila had the best season of his career;

(d) Luol Deng has shown marked improvement even though he missed the entire offseason;

(e) The fact Duhon has improved immensely; and

(f) That Nocioni should, but probably won't, get consideration for the Most Improved Player Award.

Basically, Chandler regressed. Every single other player of significance on the team has improved to one degree or another. The loss of Davis and Curry has hurt this team far more than I expected. And I certainly didn't expect Chandler to be a no-show for 1/2 the season. And the team has failed to close out the close ones this year. Those are your reasons for team regression - not individual player regression. The facts just don't support it.

Now, if you want to blame the failure to close out games on Skiles, feel free. I've blamed three or four losses this year DIRECTLY on him. But its not because staff can't coach players to improve. They have improved. Almost every single one of them.
 

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Ben Gordon stopped his routine with the practice shooting form right before the free throw. I think someone noticed that Vince carter made fun of him the second game and that's why ben gordon stopped with it. And it dramtically hurt his FT shooting.

Can anyone send this to Mike McGraw or something so he could point this out to Ben Gordon? I want him to go back to his normal routine
 

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johnston797 said:
Chandler's FT are in the tank. Much worse than last season as well. I wonder about the coach\GM angle, too. I have need seen a coach say a player needs to work on his game as much right after signing a big contract as Pax did to Chandler.
When the season started, Chandler had a hideous hitch in his free throw stroke that he didn't have last season. Maybe it developed from inactivity this summer, I don't know. But he was actually sub-40% for awhile. Then later in the season (halfway through or so) Red Kerr noted before the game that they had changed Tyson's stroke, and it immediately looked better. I know his percentage is still bad, but it has gone up. I suspect that if he starts of next season with the stroke he has now, he'll shoot 60% or better. Nothing to write home about, but an improvement.
 

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The 6ft Hurdle said:
Perhaps we can see the fruits of this in the longer-longer run, hopefully for us next year. But seeing that he is our leading scorer and it is his 3rd year, he'd probably be accused of playing for a bigger contract.

But dang is a wastin'. And all I've seen this year is a regression/lack of progress in all the players we did retain, not just Ben.

I can remember when Tyson was actually exciting to watch and not some hilariously bumbling offensive clown. Luol Deng is still arguably our most versatile and best all-around player, but he's still averaging only about 13 points a game in 5 more minutes.

None of our players have actually developed, except for the one guy were going to build with/around. No offense to his fans, but we could have Paul Pierce and KG on this team right now with them being our 2 leading scorers, heading to the playoffs, and Skiles and Pax would give Kirk most of the credit as the real glue to this team.

Does anyone find it kinda odd that Skiles has beefed most often in the media with arguably 2 players who were very instrumental in closing our wins, last year ?

Not only have most of these core players not developed, but after succeeding largely because of strong fourth quarters last year, most which Eddy and his post game wasn't a part of, and retaining our main gamebreakers, 4th quarters have suddenly become our achilles heel to the point where we lose big leads against mediocre teams ? How the hell does this happen, a complete 180 of last year ?

As Jim Ian and many others have pointed out, it's probably because they tire of the guy's tactics and antics. I was reading Skiles' comments after the loss to the Magic and all he said was something to the extent of work hard. Of course I don't know exactly what Skiles is telling his guys in person, but I don't think it really helps anyone's confidence when he calls them out for millions of people to read. His answer was to run them through a marathon practice. OK. . .I thought you were busting *** this whole year. But, you can work as hard as you want, but you're still not going to get rid of your mental block. The guy is the classic case of confusing effort for results.

If you contrast that with another "right way" guy, let's say, Ben Howland, coach of the 2006 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament champions the, University of California Los Angeles (U.C.L.A. :raised_ey), he's quick to give credit to all the players all the time. He balances extreme affinity for the players this out by making them play hard *** defense and somewhat controlled offense (which is pretty average).

With Skiles, I see absolutely no balance to his madness. He always looks pissed off, he's always blaming his players (or in the good times just the select few --- i.e. stars, athletic guys, guys who could help our team). He hardly ever gives anyone credit. Or if he does, it's only to a select few and if he absolutely has to give credit to a player people don't think he likes, he says it in a way that downplays their achievements. I think Ben and Tyson are just reacting the best they can as humanly possible, but they're still wondering, if what they proved last year didn't count for anything at all in Skiles eyes in terms of more minutes and less pulling them out when they're not working, what will ?
:clap:



Skiles has got to go!


And I thought Pax was gonna model this team after the championship squads he played on. Instead he's making this team the "Fighting Irish" of the NBA!

:rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
nanokooshball said:
Ben Gordon stopped his routine with the practice shooting form right before the free throw. I think someone noticed that Vince carter made fun of him the second game and that's why ben gordon stopped with it. And it dramtically hurt his FT shooting.

Can anyone send this to Mike McGraw or something so he could point this out to Ben Gordon? I want him to go back to his normal routine
Wow, good observation, nano. I didn't notice the change.

I thought that Ben was going to plateau at somewhere just around or under 90% for free throws. His release is so good, and his arc and rotation are so ideal. Maybe the change in routine really has hurt his accuracy.
 

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nanokooshball said:
Ben Gordon stopped his routine with the practice shooting form right before the free throw. I think someone noticed that Vince carter made fun of him the second game and that's why ben gordon stopped with it. And it dramtically hurt his FT shooting.

Can anyone send this to Mike McGraw or something so he could point this out to Ben Gordon? I want him to go back to his normal routine
I agree. He stopped doing his "practice shot" before every free throw. Tyson actually copied Ben's routine towards the end of last season and his FT percentage improved a lot. Both players stopped doing that this year, and as we all know their percentages have gone down. Someone should email McGraw about it.
 

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SALO said:
I agree. He stopped doing his "practice shot" before every free throw. Tyson actually copied Ben's routine towards the end of last season and his FT percentage improved a lot. Both players stopped doing that this year, and as we all know their percentages have gone down. Someone should email McGraw about it.
I saw both Tyson and Ben do the practice shot last night. If they did it every time is up for question however, but they did it at least once. It could just be that the game feed they are cutting tosomething else, heck, some times WGN didn't even show the free thorw.

The problem is the teams dribble penetration. It is one of the keys to a good team, drive and dish, drive and dish, they rarely do it. Look at Kirk, he is usually just some dumb guy out there making 4 or 5 shots, and maybe a few free throws. But last night he was actually driving inside, and he was just flatout balling out there. And the fruits of the dribble penetration were obvious, 46 free throw attempts. Thats one of the teams main problems, as well as not having a flatout dominant low post threat, Sweetney has some nice stuff, but he doesn't have the quick explosive dunk that Eddy had. If Kirk, Ben, Deng, and Nocioni keep driving the Bulls will keep getting more freethrows and doing better. As long as duhon doesn't try to drive because he is just awful at it.
 

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sloth said:
I saw both Tyson and Ben do the practice shot last night. If they did it every time is up for question however, but they did it at least once. It could just be that the game feed they are cutting tosomething else, heck, some times WGN didn't even show the free thorw.

As long as duhon doesn't try to drive because he is just awful at it.
Two things. Last year Gordon ALWAYS did the practice routine before EVERY shot. This year he changed it and he should go back so he can be that 90% FT shooter.

And, Duhon is actually decent at getting to the rim. He is nowhere near awful. I encourage to attack the rim as much as possible.
 

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nanokooshball said:
Two things. Last year Gordon ALWAYS did the practice routine before EVERY shot. This year he changed it and he should go back so he can be that 90% FT shooter.

And, Duhon is actually decent at getting to the rim. He is nowhere near awful. I encourage to attack the rim as much as possible.
What?!? To me, it seems like when Duhon drives, he's going in slow motion, and weak, and he usually doesn't make the shot at the end anyhow, or even draw a foul.
 

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nankooshball covered was I was going to say about Ben.


As for Tyson, over the offseason, he apparently forgot how to do it. Maybe through lack of practice, or through overtinkering. He started turning the elbow, meaning he missed a lot to the side.

He's straightened the elbow up now, but is now tilting his head on all his shots to see around his arm. I don't care about the over-bouncing in the build up - he used to be able to make them even with that there. But he misses so many wide left and wide right because the entire action isn't straight. It used to be. If you can shoot straight, almost anybody can hit 60%. And we need that right now.
 
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