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I was just wondering what everyone thought of Big 12 prospects for the NBA. I don't really watch anybody except KU, so I was wondering what everyone thought. There's a thread on phog.net with some not very smart stuff about Miles and people overrating Simien, but I was wondering what everyone thought.

http://mb13.theinsiders.com/fkansasinsiderfrm3.showMessage?topicID=27294.topic

I can only talk about KU, but here's my 2 cents:
Giddens - he probably won't use all of his eligibility, although he absolutely HAS to improve his handles and being able to create a shot would be really nice

Graves - good body, but he barely gets any rebounds, and for someone as offensively inept as he is, he should really be able to dunk. he won't make it, he's a big wimp.

Langford - let's get real. 6'3" slasher who is a very average shooter for a college 2 and very poor for NBA. plus, he gets blocked on jumpers all the time. too bad for him, cause another few inches and he'd be really good.

Simien - I doubt it. Best case, he might end up being as good as Corliss Williamson (nicknamed the "Big Ugly") or Lawrence Funderburke. He's by no means the listed 6'9", more like 6'7", and he does not have the long arms of other short forwards in the league (Elton Brand) and he is not a very good jumper.

Miles - I think he's got a shot, simply because it's hard to find good point guards. Look, people will compare him to Jacque Vaughn, but what about Kevin Ollie, who supposedly gets by on running the team (he does this poorly), defense (average at best), and shooting less than 50% on what are primarily open layups/midrange jumpers. I see no reason why Miles won't get a chance, especially since shooting is something that can be kind of taught. Also, next year there may not be many good points in the draft, with Jameer Nelson, Duhon, Gordon, and possibly Devin Harris (although I think he'll stay) being gone. I say late second or as a free agent. Miles also needs to drive and dish a lot better.
 

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Right now the scouts love Jabarhi Brown's athletisism. It may get him drafted. But no one else will get much of a chance right now. I don't think Detrick will get a much of a look in the NBA because he just hasn't been healthy enough to show a lot to scouts. Some of the younger guys could have a chance. But they are young.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!
I was just wondering what everyone thought of Big 12 prospects for the NBA. I don't really watch anybody except KU, so I was wondering what everyone thought. There's a thread on phog.net with some not very smart stuff about Miles and people overrating Simien, but I was wondering what everyone thought.

http://mb13.theinsiders.com/fkansasinsiderfrm3.showMessage?topicID=27294.topic

I can only talk about KU, but here's my 2 cents:
Giddens - he probably won't use all of his eligibility, although he absolutely HAS to improve his handles and being able to create a shot would be really nice

Graves - good body, but he barely gets any rebounds, and for someone as offensively inept as he is, he should really be able to dunk. he won't make it, he's a big wimp.

Langford - let's get real. 6'3" slasher who is a very average shooter for a college 2 and very poor for NBA. plus, he gets blocked on jumpers all the time. too bad for him, cause another few inches and he'd be really good.

Simien - I doubt it. Best case, he might end up being as good as Corliss Williamson (nicknamed the "Big Ugly") or Lawrence Funderburke. He's by no means the listed 6'9", more like 6'7", and he does not have the long arms of other short forwards in the league (Elton Brand) and he is not a very good jumper.

Miles - I think he's got a shot, simply because it's hard to find good point guards. Look, people will compare him to Jacque Vaughn, but what about Kevin Ollie, who supposedly gets by on running the team (he does this poorly), defense (average at best), and shooting less than 50% on what are primarily open layups/midrange jumpers. I see no reason why Miles won't get a chance, especially since shooting is something that can be kind of taught. Also, next year there may not be many good points in the draft, with Jameer Nelson, Duhon, Gordon, and possibly Devin Harris (although I think he'll stay) being gone. I say late second or as a free agent. Miles also needs to drive and dish a lot better.
Giddens' ballhandling ability is a complete mystery at this time because he simply hasn't put the ball on the floor one bit. If he manages to prove he's got decent handles, he's a tremendous prospect. Paul Pierce has become a superstar but he's got average handles. Giddens has loads of athletic ability, is extremely fast, has a wingspan of close to 7 ft., and a money jumper. He's got all the potential to be a huge prospect.

Graves may make a roster, but it'll be hard. Regardless, he'll do nothing in the league whether he makes it or not.

Langford's got a good shot at being a late first rounder/early second rounder, due to his slashing and finishing ability. If he continues to add range to his jumper that will help him. He's by no means a great prospect, but there's a possibility he could be a solid contributor off the bench.

Simien needs to stick around for his Senior season. He's been a disappointment this year. I'm wanting to see if he can improve with a healthy offseason. I'm iffy on him at this point. He's got a good face-up game and extremely soft touch, and definitely has the body to makei it. He's about the same size as Elton Brand and he's an all-star calibur player, so I don't think that's neccesarily something that will cause him to be a flop. He could be anywhere from a very good NBA player to a scrub. He'll definitely make a roster though.

Miles will make a roster due to defense and tenacity alone. If he's lucky he can be an Eric Snow type player, and I'd be extremely happy with that. Let's face it, he'll never be a good shooter, but he does plenty other things that will land him in the league.

Padgett's another mystery at this time. The kid's got a lot of talent, but he's got a LONG way to go before anyone should even mention the NBA with him.
 

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Not a conference loaded with can't miss talents.

David Harrison because of his size has a shot at the first round but I'm not in love with his offensive game.

Rickey Paulding should be an effective swingman in the pros. I'd spend a mid-late 1st on him.

Arthur Johnson should be a solid PF. Round 2 somewhere.

Antonie Wright might have the high ceiling of anyone but hopefully he'll stay in school and refine things.

Morandais, Allen, Miles all are also draftable players. Probably 2nd rounders. Morandais hasn't had a huge year.

Emmett should be 2nd also.
 

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The closest Jabahri Brown will get to the NBA is playing summer league against some NBDL players.

The guy is not an NBA talent whatsoever. He isn't even a very good college player.
 

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He's the only one on OU's team right now that I think has a chance in hell of getting drafted. Just because he can run really fast(probably the fastest guy on the team) and jump real high and is tall. The others are either too early to tell or have no chance right now.
 

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How about Jeremiah Massey from KState? He seems like the only one producing consistently on that team. He is 6-7/8" who plays a low post game.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Stevie B</b>!
David Harrison because of his size has a shot at the first round but I'm not in love with his offensive game.
He's been talked up some on the Draft Forum here, and of course will be drafted because he's a seven-footer who doesn't just like to stand outside the three-point line and jack up shots. I'll admit he has some talent. Thing that makes me dubious about him his the mental side of things. Seems very immature. Everytime something doesn't go his way he wants to throw a tantrum. I don't see him having much success in the L. until he grows up a bit.
 

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David Harrison has the perfect temperment for the NBA, thinks that he is all that, and complains alot (Rasheed Wallace, dozen others) he has talent, and as a ku fan I want him to jump.

Miles, Langford, and Simen, CAN'T LEAVE THIS YEAR. Simen needs to improve on every area this year, he in my mind has regressed, but heck he missed most of last year so that's not all of his fault.

Langford, I never really thought that he was big enough to be a pro, maybe he can make a bench next year after his senior season.
 

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Jackson Vroman will make a team. He is a 7 footer with athletic ability and has a couple post moves. He has only played 5 years of organized Basketball so he will make a team that likes his potetial.

Jared Homan might make a team that needs a bruser that can rebound and ruff people up.

Sully is too short and can't play Defense.

Stinson will be a great college player but won't go pro unless he get's better at handling the ball and a better outside shot.

Blalock is more of a pro style player than Stinson. Still young though. Have to see how he matures.
 

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Originally posted by <b>Cycloneandy</b>!
Jackson Vroman will make a team. He is a 7 footer with athletic ability and has a couple post moves. He has only played 5 years of organized Basketball so he will make a team that likes his potetial.
Agreed. I remember last year around this time, the first KU-ISU game, and Vroman didn't exactly have the best game. I thought he showed some good potential, and all my friends thought I was nuts. Sure enough, Vroman turned it on towards the end of conference and ended the season on a tear. And now he's displaying legit pro talent and potential, as Cycloneandy stated above. The only thing is, he's not 7'. He's 6'10". But he's an agile and athletic 6'10", and he has a great competitive streak and mentality for the game. Plus, his dad was a pro baller for a long time.

Jared Homan might make a team that needs a bruser that can rebound and ruff people up.
I don't think he'll make a pro roster, but he'll likely float around in Europe or the NBDL like Martin Rancik.

Sully is too short and can't play Defense.
ABA/NBDL....a less savvy Jeff Boschee.

Stinson will be a great college player but won't go pro unless he get's better at handling the ball and a better outside shot.
Marcus Hatten, part II?

Blalock is more of a pro style player than Stinson. Still young though. Have to see how he matures.
Way too young to tell. He's got the quicks for sure, though.

This is how I see Kansas' prospects right now (in order).

1.) JR Giddens. He'd probably go in the first round this year if he declared, just for his athleticism and shooting range alone. He's still very raw, and he really needs to work on putting the ball on the floor, driving to the hole, creating his shot, and getting better positioning on the boards. But I think these parts of his game will come in time, and sooner rather than later. He's shown nothing but an intense desire to learn and improve every day at Kansas. Bottom line: a 6'5" guy who plays like he's 6'8" with a 45" vertical leap, who has a money shot from long range, and who plays with intensity and a proven capability to learn and progress is a very enticing prospect for any NBA team.

2.) Wayne Simien. Big Dub probably isn't 6'9", but he's not 6'7" either like some people claim (those people who say this probably haven't played pickup ball with him on numerous occasions like yours truly). Regardless, his height sends up an immediate red flag to most pro teams. Then again, there are plenty of effective pro posts who are 6'8" or shorter (Elton Brand, Darvin Ham, Maurice Taylor, Bo Outlaw, Udonis Haslem, Reggie Evans, Kenny Thomas, Malik Rose, etc.). But around the basket, Wayne really needs to time his jumps better. He's having some problems finishing around the hoop, and this is directly correlated to the timing of his jumps. I also think he's still not over his shoulder injury. Physically yes, but not mentally. And I think this is a factor in his timing/finishing problems. On the other side of things, Wayne has great touch, a great shot out to 20', and plenty of strength and footwork to go in the mid-first round next year. He has an excellent body, a great history of instruction and a demonstrated desire to succeed/intensity. I don't think he should declare this year, as his stock has probably dropped a little bit. And one last thing about Wayne -- the kid's a pretty decent leaper, actually. In high school he used to explode to the rim in a hurry and would jump over almost everybody, even in AAU/All-Star camps. He has the physical gifts to be a thoroughly explosive player around the hoop, even in the NBA. But like I said earlier, I think the notion of previous injuries rests in the back of his mind, and this limits his effectiveness around the hoop right now. This is a huge reason why he should stay another year. Also, Wayne really could stand to get some more elevation on his perimeter jumper.

3.) Keith Langford. Simply put, he's becoming more and more like Cuttino Mobley every day. In fact, Langford has had better stats than Mobley every year, including this one. Both are listed at 6'4" (Keith's height is legit), and both have comparable athleticism. This is the guy I think of when I think of Langford's pro viability. Of course, Mobley fell into the perfect spot in Houston, but he had to prove himself to get there. He's improved every year he's been in college and the NBA, and I think Keith shows this same pattern. Keith was asked to step up his ballhandling, and now he handles the point on occasion and brings the ball up the floor with ease. Keith was asked to step up his perimeter shooting, and he's now shooting 40% from behiind the arc. His height will certainly limit his opportunities in the League, but like Mobley, time and improvement will tell the story. We'll see.

4.) Jeff Graves. Second round to a team in desperate need of bulk at best, Kansas City Knights at worst.

5.) David Padgett. Too early to tell, but at a legit 7', he's got a bright future. In need of strength, mobility and coordination.

Mizzou's Kleiza is a given to get picked up early in whatever draft he declares for. Paulding is probably a late first round guy right now, and AJ is probably a second round/NBDL player.
 

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Oklahoma State

I don't really see any of our players making the league, except for maybe Joey Graham.

Joey Graham is really breaking out. He has the ability to dominate. He can play the 2, 3, or 4. Most athletic player I've seen at OSU since at least Desmond Mason. Draft position would depend on how he plays next year.

Tony Allen has an NBA style of play but his outside shot is terrible right now. He still has a slight chance of getting drafted but he will have to improve his outside shot.

Daniel Bobik is the best shooter I've ever seen and the ultimate team player. The scoring average may not be high but this guy actually has a shot at making an NBA roster. He's a lockdown defender, has unlimited range, great passer, tough player, and even a good rebounder.

Ivan McFarlin will not have a chance only because Coach Sutton will not allow McFarlin to shoot from outside. McFarlin needs to develop a perimeter jumper if he wants to get a shot at the league because he will play the 3 in the NBA.

John Lucas is a smart player. He has all the tools, just not the size. His defense has improved so much under Eddie Sutton and he loves nothing more than to make the big play. Hopefully his dad will be able to get some scouts to give him a serious look because he has the skills.

Stevie Graham hardly plays at all but he is every bit as good as his brother Joey. He just can't play defense yet, and that's why he's on the bench. He can play the 1, 2, and 3 positions and his playing time will increase a lot next season.
 

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Originally posted by <b>VincentVega</b>!
Mizzou's Kleiza is a given to get picked up early in whatever draft he declares for. Paulding is probably a late first round guy right now, and AJ is probably a second round/NBDL player.
I doubt Kleiza's a given to go early, unless by early you mean late first round. He's an undersized PF. I think the comparisons to Rodney Rogers are spot on.

I'm not sure if Paulding's even a first rounder anymore. That's where he was at last year, but this year he's done jack. People complain about Langford's size but I'd venture to say Paulding's only about an inch taller, so if Langford's an early second rounder at best in a lot of minds, I don't see why Paulding would go higher.
 

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I disagreee that if JR leaves early this yer (which that should not even be discussed), he be a first rounder. I feel he is the best chance of the bunch to be a solid NBA player

Keith Langford-Of the big 3 juniors, he is the one I would think would jump into the NBA early if he has the opport. He had improved every part of his game. Prediction:If leave early, Mid 2nd. Next year possbiel late 1st round early 2nd

Wayne SImien-The thing that hurts the most has been his injuries. I read in an article that Nick COllison said he has chance to leave early, he would recommend Wayne to b/c of his injury prone. However, with his injury prone, I would think most NBA teams would like him to stay this year and next injury free. He needs to work on his game. However, when he was a frosh, I just knew he would be awesome b/c the way he was built. Prediction:Leave early (late 1st Rounder, early 2nd), next year (late Lottery to Late 1st Round)

Aaron Miles-He is prooving each game that scoring stats does not mean anything to be a great college player. He is showing that lately. He will break Jacque Vaughn's Big 8/Big 12 Assist Record. He has all the tangibles, and he is I think an anit-NBA typical PG. Most NBA typical PG are scorers. Steve Francis, Kirk Hinrich, Steve nash, adn so on. I think he will stay with the team. Prediction-doubt it, but leave early (2nd), and stay (chance to be late 1st, most likly 2nd)

Jeff Graves-If he get his head stright, and play consistent, he will be a bench player for the NBA as a possiblity. He is a fierce rebounder, can block, and score down low if needed to. PRediction:late 2nd or undrafted FA which is most likely

JR Giddens-Like I said above the best chance to become a NBA Star. I would think he will stay at least until Junior year, but does not surpise me that he will leave after soph year. Prediction : this year which I highly doubt (mid 2nd to undraft), next year (late first to mid 2nd), after JR year (late lottery to late 1st), all 4 years which I hope (Lottery)

David Padgett-Too early to tell. I would say by Juniro year he can be up to 1st round status if he works at it

Michael Lee-Can be over seas or minor leagues here in the states. Don't laugh, he can be very successful over seas. Look at Scooter Barry (Richard Jr) he played at Kansas sparenigly(sp), and he has been overseas now for about 15 or so years averaging 18-22ppg. after only average like 2ppg here at Kansas. So anythign can happen

Bryant nash-Overseass he has the athleticism, but he ahs not grown into a player that Kasnas wanted him to be into
 

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Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!
Michael Lee-Can be over seas or minor leagues here in the states. Don't laugh, he can be very successful over seas. Look at Scooter Barry (Richard Jr) he played at Kansas sparenigly(sp), and he has been overseas now for about 15 or so years averaging 18-22ppg. after only average like 2ppg here at Kansas. So anythign can happen
True, I believe Gregory just won MVP of summer European league, and was shooting some insane percentage from the field. Lee could probably make a decent living overseas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!
I disagreee that if JR leaves early this yer (which that should not even be discussed), he be a first rounder. I feel he is the best chance of the bunch to be a solid NBA player

Keith Langford-Of the big 3 juniors, he is the one I would think would jump into the NBA early if he has the opport. He had improved every part of his game. Prediction:If leave early, Mid 2nd. Next year possbiel late 1st round early 2nd

Wayne SImien-The thing that hurts the most has been his injuries. I read in an article that Nick COllison said he has chance to leave early, he would recommend Wayne to b/c of his injury prone. However, with his injury prone, I would think most NBA teams would like him to stay this year and next injury free. He needs to work on his game. However, when he was a frosh, I just knew he would be awesome b/c the way he was built. Prediction:Leave early (late 1st Rounder, early 2nd), next year (late Lottery to Late 1st Round)

Aaron Miles-He is prooving each game that scoring stats does not mean anything to be a great college player. He is showing that lately. He will break Jacque Vaughn's Big 8/Big 12 Assist Record. He has all the tangibles, and he is I think an anit-NBA typical PG. Most NBA typical PG are scorers. Steve Francis, Kirk Hinrich, Steve nash, adn so on. I think he will stay with the team. Prediction-doubt it, but leave early (2nd), and stay (chance to be late 1st, most likly 2nd)

Jeff Graves-If he get his head stright, and play consistent, he will be a bench player for the NBA as a possiblity. He is a fierce rebounder, can block, and score down low if needed to. PRediction:late 2nd or undrafted FA which is most likely

JR Giddens-Like I said above the best chance to become a NBA Star. I would think he will stay at least until Junior year, but does not surpise me that he will leave after soph year. Prediction : this year which I highly doubt (mid 2nd to undraft), next year (late first to mid 2nd), after JR year (late lottery to late 1st), all 4 years which I hope (Lottery)

David Padgett-Too early to tell. I would say by Juniro year he can be up to 1st round status if he works at it

Michael Lee-Can be over seas or minor leagues here in the states. Don't laugh, he can be very successful over seas. Look at Scooter Barry (Richard Jr) he played at Kansas sparenigly(sp), and he has been overseas now for about 15 or so years averaging 18-22ppg. after only average like 2ppg here at Kansas. So anythign can happen

Bryant nash-Overseass he has the athleticism, but he ahs not grown into a player that Kasnas wanted him to be into
Dude, this many future NBAers makes us an absolute lock for the title. I'm gonna go buy my tickets.
 

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Originally posted by <b>ill subliminal</b>!


Dude, this many future NBAers makes us an absolute lock for the title. I'm gonna go buy my tickets.
The only one he said had a chance of being a high pick was Giddens and possibly Simien. You've got to be kidding if you think his post was overly positive.
 

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Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!
I disagreee that if JR leaves early this yer (which that should not even be discussed), he be a first rounder. I feel he is the best chance of the bunch to be a solid NBA player

Keith Langford-Of the big 3 juniors, he is the one I would think would jump into the NBA early if he has the opport. He had improved every part of his game. Prediction:If leave early, Mid 2nd. Next year possbiel late 1st round early 2nd

Wayne SImien-The thing that hurts the most has been his injuries. I read in an article that Nick COllison said he has chance to leave early, he would recommend Wayne to b/c of his injury prone. However, with his injury prone, I would think most NBA teams would like him to stay this year and next injury free. He needs to work on his game. However, when he was a frosh, I just knew he would be awesome b/c the way he was built. Prediction:Leave early (late 1st Rounder, early 2nd), next year (late Lottery to Late 1st Round)

Aaron Miles-He is prooving each game that scoring stats does not mean anything to be a great college player. He is showing that lately. He will break Jacque Vaughn's Big 8/Big 12 Assist Record. He has all the tangibles, and he is I think an anit-NBA typical PG. Most NBA typical PG are scorers. Steve Francis, Kirk Hinrich, Steve nash, adn so on. I think he will stay with the team. Prediction-doubt it, but leave early (2nd), and stay (chance to be late 1st, most likly 2nd)

Jeff Graves-If he get his head stright, and play consistent, he will be a bench player for the NBA as a possiblity. He is a fierce rebounder, can block, and score down low if needed to. PRediction:late 2nd or undrafted FA which is most likely

JR Giddens-Like I said above the best chance to become a NBA Star. I would think he will stay at least until Junior year, but does not surpise me that he will leave after soph year. Prediction : this year which I highly doubt (mid 2nd to undraft), next year (late first to mid 2nd), after JR year (late lottery to late 1st), all 4 years which I hope (Lottery)

David Padgett-Too early to tell. I would say by Juniro year he can be up to 1st round status if he works at it

Michael Lee-Can be over seas or minor leagues here in the states. Don't laugh, he can be very successful over seas. Look at Scooter Barry (Richard Jr) he played at Kansas sparenigly(sp), and he has been overseas now for about 15 or so years averaging 18-22ppg. after only average like 2ppg here at Kansas. So anythign can happen

Bryant nash-Overseass he has the athleticism, but he ahs not grown into a player that Kasnas wanted him to be into
I bet 2 maybe 3 of these guys ever make in the NBA. If they are lucky. But if you want to be that optimistic two can play at that game.

I'll confidently say Detrick, Gilbert, Brown, Alexander and Bookout will all be first rounders THIS year. And Bookout is a first rounder despite the injury.
 

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Originally posted by <b>kansasalumn</b>!

JR Giddens-Like I said above the best chance to become a NBA Star. I would think he will stay at least until Junior year, but does not surpise me that he will leave after soph year. Prediction : this year which I highly doubt (mid 2nd to undraft), next year (late first to mid 2nd), after JR year (late lottery to late 1st), all 4 years which I hope (Lottery)
I don't like the way you project all the players to develop into higher draft picks the longer they stay. It just does not make sense, since the draft is based on potential - you think his potential will increase each year?

Guys will typically jump in the rankings as soph's and junior's. But many just stagnate in the 3rd and 4th years which actually hurts there draft value.

That being said I still think Giddens can become a lottery draft pick, but it is likely he would show this in his sophomre or junior year, not as a senior.

I know Kansas had Hinrich, in particular, who benefitted from hanging around, but he is more the exception then the rule.
 

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Originally posted by <b>JuniorNoboa</b>!


I don't like the way you project all the players to develop into higher draft picks the longer they stay. It just does not make sense, since the draft is based on potential - you think his potential will increase each year?

Guys will typically jump in the rankings as soph's and junior's. But many just stagnate in the 3rd and 4th years which actually hurts there draft value.

That being said I still think Giddens can become a lottery draft pick, but it is likely he would show this in his sophomre or junior year, not as a senior.

I know Kansas had Hinrich, in particular, who benefitted from hanging around, but he is more the exception then the rule.
I'll agree with this completely. Usually a player's draft status will peak by his junior year, and I think that was even true for Hinrich. His draft status didn't jump his senior year at all, it increased because of blistering summer workouts. Collison probably benefitted from a senior year, though.
 
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