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Discussion Starter #1
Glenn Robinson is finally out of George Karl's doghouse. In fact, Big Dog is out of Milwaukee after the Bucks traded Robinson to Atlanta for Toni Kukoc, Leon Smith and one of the Hawks' first-round picks next season. Robinson and Karl did not see eye to eye, especially last season when the Bucks failed to make the playoffs.

go to espn.com then click NBA for the link
 

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Good trade for both teams. It lets Milwaukee actually give Tim Thomas the chance to justify his contract, and it lets them have a first rounder next year (because their pick is going to Denver).

Atlanta now has the offensive talent to shoot it out with anyone, adding the Big Dog to Abdur-Rahim and Terry. If Ratliff is healthy, Atlanta can definately be a good team.
 

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Both teams helped themselves here. Atlanta now has a good point,3,4.


Thomas actually gets to start now.


Thank you George Karl
 

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Hawks...

This trade really improves them. They get another scorer and fill a whole at the SF spot. They don't have to give up that much to get him either. Hawks, if they can stay healthy, will make the playoffs.

C-Theo Ratliff
PF-Shareef Abdur-Rahim
SF-Glenn Robinson
SG-DerMarr Johnson
PG-Jason Terry
 

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They will be a good offensive team but that doesn't look good on defense.

PG:Jason Terry(Undersized, not a great defender)

SG:Dermarr Johnson(developing but is still weak and has no D)

SF:Glenn Robinson(Everybody knows about his D)

PF:Shareef(A little undersized for PF)

C: Theo(Great Defender, but only a matter of time before he is on the IR)

C: Nazr Mohammed( Not that great of D, really strong, needs to be more physical, plays a finesse game, not too long before he is starting)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I really like the move for Atlanta... now all they need is a better SG.. but if Dermarr can pull through it's a solid deal
 

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leon smith..

Is not a bad player.. hes like 6'11 and can do a descent job out there on the floor.. if hes not dressed up like an idian.. but hell prob get cut, cuz the bucks already have pryzbilla gadzuric and haislipp
 

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Re: leon smith..

Originally posted by grizzoistight
Is not a bad player.. hes like 6'11 and can do a descent job out there on the floor.. if hes not dressed up like an idian.. but hell prob get cut, cuz the bucks already have pryzbilla gadzuric and haislipp
I have a feeling that Leon is one of those guys that just won't make a huge difference, not that I wouldn't like to see him redeem himself and become a really good player.
 

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I think this trade is one of mutual benefit to both teams! Toni will be great for the Bucks off of the bench and Tim will be starting.
Atlanta just got someone who can shoot straight and they needed that - badly!
 

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This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?

You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).

In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!

AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:

1 Nets
2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
3 Pistons
4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
6 Pacers
7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
---
9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
11 Bucks
12 Hawks
13 Bulls
14 Knicks
15 Cavs

The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:

1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team

And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:

PG Sam Cassell
SG Ray Allen
SF Tim Thomas
PF Anthony Mason
C Joel Pryzbilla

That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Originally posted by robyg1974
This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?

You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).

In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!

AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:

1 Nets
2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
3 Pistons
4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
6 Pacers
7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
---
9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
11 Bucks
12 Hawks
13 Bulls
14 Knicks
15 Cavs

The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:

1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team

And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:

PG Sam Cassell
SG Ray Allen
SF Tim Thomas
PF Anthony Mason
C Joel Pryzbilla

That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!
you can win in the east with that kind of frontcourt though...
 

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Haislip's summer league play probably had something to do with the expendability of Robinson to the point they can justify a salary dump.
 

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See the thing is things don't happen just because you think they will happen. Just because you don't think they won't challenge for a playoff spot doesn't mean they won't. Just because your standings say so doesn't mean a damn thing.

Jason Terry played like an allstar PG when he was given the chance. After AllStar break they handed him the reigns and he did wonderfully. Everybody else was hurt but he was 20 and 8 a night. they got Dickau because they needed someone to be a backup PG because they had no backup.

Dermarr Johnson was starting at Sg the second half of the season and showed improvement. The one thing he has in his favor is size. He is 6-9 or 6-10. If he plays well they will challenge for a playoff spot this year.

But, like I said their problem is defense. And also they have been losing some of their coaches like that guy from the Pistons fom the Bad Boy team I can't remeber his name right now.
 

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That is an unbelievable steal for the Hawks. Kukoc has nothing left. Robinson is always an offensive threat. You are correct, robyg, this is clearly a salary dump. Wow!
 

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This is an incredibly bad trade for Milwaukee. I mean, you guys understand that they'd been trying to trade Robinson for Latrell Sprewell a few weeks ago, right? And they settled for TONI KUKOC?

You guys also need to understand that Toni Kukoc DOES NOT PLAY ANYMORE. The Bucks didn't make this move so they could get Kukoc--they did it so they could dump Robinson's contract. Robinson has three years left on his deal, while Kukoc only has two. Amount of money left on Kukoc's contract: $18.4 mil (two years). Amount of money left on The Big Dog's contract: $32.6 mil (three years). This is a salary dump here, people. And, of course, NOW Tim Thomas can show the world what he is capable of when given 30+ minutes/game (prediction: NOT MUCH).

In any event, this trade also means that the Bucks are essentially throwing in the towel for next season. Say what you want about Glenn Robinson, he was a big player for the Bucks, he averaged over 20 points/game LAST SEASON! And Tim Thomas AIN'T gonna step up!

AS FOR THE HAWKS: A team that was already having big enough payroll problems just made their financial situation EVEN WORSE. At LEAST they should be a better team next season. In FACT, they MIGHT even be as good as the BUCKS next season--but they're STILL not good enough to challenge for a playoff spot. Here are my adjusted 2002-03 Eastern Conference standings:

1 Nets
2 Hornets (finally, a homecourt advantage)
3 Pistons
4 76ers (nice offseason tinkering to upgrade team defense)
5 Magic (assuming that Keon Clark signs sometime soon)
6 Pacers
7 Wizards (assuming MJ stays healthy)
8 Celtics (the Vinny Baker trade will be a disaster)
---
9 Heat (will make the playoffs if MJ goes down again)
10 Raptors (major payroll problems)
11 Bucks
12 Hawks
13 Bulls
14 Knicks
15 Cavs

The Hawks still have some pretty major problems:

1) They have a tiny starting backcourt (assuming Dickau is the PG and Terry is the SG--Terry AIN'T a PG!)
2) They play terrible team defense largely because...
3) ... Theo Ratliff cannot stay healthy
4) Shareef Abdur-Rahim is not a guy you should build yr team around, he's a good player, but not a GREAT player
5) Their payroll is HUUUUUGE, over $50 mil, which is acceptable for a playoff team, but NOT for a lottery team

And BACK TO THE BUCKS--take a look at their starting lineup:

PG Sam Cassell
SG Ray Allen
SF Tim Thomas
PF Anthony Mason
C Joel Pryzbilla

That is ALMOST CERTAINLY the worst starting frontcourt in the NBA right there, people! But at LEAST they get rid of Robinson's contract, and at LEAST they get the Pacers' first-round pick (which SHOULD be around #16-#18 overall) out of the deal. But this is NOT a good basketball trade--this trade does NOT make the Bucks a better team, make no mistake! 99% of the time, when players don't like the head coach, in ANY sport, the COACH is the one who has to hit the road, NOT THE PLAYERS! I think it's pretty obvious that George Karl has worn out his welcome in Milwaukee, too bad Milwaukee ownership/management don't think so!
You're judging the Hawks without them even playing a game. They will be better. They're a great offensive team now. They should be a terrible defensive team. I think they should be a 6-10 team in the East.
 

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Another thing that people haven't mentioned.

Getting rid of Big Dog makes it more likely that they'll bring back Michael Redd, because now he'll play a much more important role with the team (the new #1 scoring option off of the bench now)
 

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Originally posted by BCH
Haislip's summer league play probably had something to do with the expendability of Robinson to the point they can justify a salary dump.
I'm sure that the Bucks are happy that Haislip has played well in the summer leagues and all, but he won't touch the floor next year--that is, not until it's pretty obvious that the team won't be making the playoffs! Haislip is behind SEVERAL players on the depth chart for PT. I have ranked the Bucks players below according to anticipated 2002-03 minutes/game:

1 Anthony Mason (38 minutes/game at PF)
2 Ray Allen (36 minutes/game at SG)
3 Sam Cassell (36 minutes/game at PG)
4 Tim Thomas (32 minutes/game at SF)
5 Michael Redd (12 minutes/game at SG, 16 minutes/game at SF)
6 Ervin Johnson (20 minutes/game at C)
7 Joel Pryzbilla (18 minutes/game at C)
8 Ronald Murray (12 minutes/game at PG)
9 Jason Caffey (10 minutes/game at PF)
10 Dan Gadzuric (10 minutes/game at C)
11 Marcus Haislip (no PT)
12 ?

Now OBVIOUSLY, Haislip will get to play a LITTLE--but only when other dudes are missing time due to injury. And, I must say, none of these top ten dudes are injury-prone players, so the Bucks SHOULD enjoy a relatively injury-free (but lottery-bound) season!

Caffey gets minutes because he is still under contract for three more years (for a ridiculous total of $17.1 mil). AND because he's a better player (at THIS point, anyway) than Haislip. AND because it won't be OBVIOUS that the Bucks AREN'T going to make the playoffs until late February or so.

No, I think the Bucks dumped Robinson's salary because they feel that Tim Thomas (from 27 minutes/game last year to 32 minutes/game in 2002-03) and Michael Redd (from 21 minutes/game last year to 28 minutes/game in 2002-03) can handle the increase in minutes, AND, of course, to SAVE MONEY and to MIX THINGS UP chemistry-wise and to MAKE TIM THOMAS START EARNING HIS DAMN MONEY! I don't think it has anything to do with Haislip. Although Haislip looks like he might be a pretty decent player for the Bucks in a few years, no doubt, huh?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Originally posted by robyg1974


I'm sure that the Bucks are happy that Haislip has played well in the summer leagues and all, but he won't touch the floor next year--that is, not until it's pretty obvious that the team won't be making the playoffs! Haislip is behind SEVERAL players on the depth chart for PT. I have ranked the Bucks players below according to anticipated 2002-03 minutes/game:

1 Anthony Mason (38 minutes/game at PF)
2 Ray Allen (36 minutes/game at SG)
3 Sam Cassell (36 minutes/game at PG)
4 Tim Thomas (32 minutes/game at SF)
5 Michael Redd (12 minutes/game at SG, 16 minutes/game at SF)
6 Ervin Johnson (20 minutes/game at C)
7 Joel Pryzbilla (18 minutes/game at C)
8 Ronald Murray (12 minutes/game at PG)
9 Jason Caffey (10 minutes/game at PF)
10 Dan Gadzuric (10 minutes/game at C)
11 Marcus Haislip (no PT)
12 ?

Now OBVIOUSLY, Haislip will get to play a LITTLE--but only when other dudes are missing time due to injury. And, I must say, none of these top ten dudes are injury-prone players, so the Bucks SHOULD enjoy a relatively injury-free (but lottery-bound) season!

Caffey gets minutes because he is still under contract for three more years (for a ridiculous total of $17.1 mil). AND because he's a better player (at THIS point, anyway) than Haislip. AND because it won't be OBVIOUS that the Bucks AREN'T going to make the playoffs until late February or so.

No, I think the Bucks dumped Robinson's salary because they feel that Tim Thomas (from 27 minutes/game last year to 32 minutes/game in 2002-03) and Michael Redd (from 21 minutes/game last year to 28 minutes/game in 2002-03) can handle the increase in minutes, AND, of course, to SAVE MONEY and to MIX THINGS UP chemistry-wise and to MAKE TIM THOMAS START EARNING HIS DAMN MONEY! I don't think it has anything to do with Haislip. Although Haislip looks like he might be a pretty decent player for the Bucks in a few years, no doubt, huh?
no, no, no I disagree with your list I put Haislip at #7 or #8 and push everyone down 1... I saw this guy in the summer league, he can hit it from down town too.. he is defintely better than Murray, Caffey and Gadzuric
 
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