Blazer Fans, Whenever You Grow Forlorn...
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ABM said:....simply remind yourselves of the condition of Kobe and the Lakers!
Somehow you'll soon start to feel better. :yes:
I have said for years..if we have a crappy season, it won't be so bad if the Lakers *also* are having a crappy season.
And this year might be that year!
Going from the finals to the lotto, isn't good. Altho, if the twolves don't make the playoffs, I'd say their collapse is worse than LA's or Portlands.
Good point, ABM. The Lakers have been so bad recently that I've wondered if they aren't intentionally trying to get into the lottery.
But I still fear the Laker curse. I can see them coming out of the lottery with the next big superstar, and going right back to the top of the NBA. Admittedly, this is not likely, but it wasn't likely that they would come back from 15 down in the fourth quarter, either . . .
But I still fear the Laker curse. I can see them coming out of the lottery with the next big superstar, and going right back to the top of the NBA. Admittedly, this is not likely, but it wasn't likely that they would come back from 15 down in the fourth quarter, either . . .
The Lakers are in better shape than the Blazers in the near term and, I believe, in the long run. Schadenfreude only goes so far, and while the Lakers had farther to fall than the Blazers, we're still looking up at them in the standings.
Now, if Portland were in the lottery but ahead of the Lakers, I could take some cheap thrill from it, but as it is my misery isn't alleviated by company.
Ed O.
Now, if Portland were in the lottery but ahead of the Lakers, I could take some cheap thrill from it, but as it is my misery isn't alleviated by company.
Ed O.
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Ed, how do you figure that the Lakers are better off? I guess it depends on your opinion of Kobe. If you think that they simply need to clear a bunch of cap money and put a high-quality big man next to Kobe and it will propel them into being a contender again, then I can see where you're coming from. Of if you're saying that they are a more high-profile team and therefore more likely to sign a free agent, that I could understand.
But comparing the two teams' young assets, I think you've got to list the Blazers' as more talented and deeper. The lakers are in that awful middle-ground of not being crappy enough to get a top 5 pick and not being good enough to be a contender. We're a notch below that, but I'm not entirely convinced that's such a bad thing.
Looking at each team's prospects *or* players they've got signed long-term:
PG: Por - Telfair LA - T. Brown (advantage: Portland)
SG: Por - monya LA - Bryant, Vujacic (ad: LA)
SF: Por - Miles, Outlaw, Krhyapa, Patterson LA - Odom, Walton, Butler (ad: LA)
PF: Por - Zbo LA - Cook (ad: Portland)
C: Por - Ratliff, Pryzbilla, Ha LA - Mihm, Medvendenko (ad: Por)
Draft picks: Por: #4 or #5 LA: #11 or #12 (ad: Por)
I realize this is a very simplistic way of looking at it, but it's a start. Also, this was off the top of my head so I very well may have missed a person or two on LA.
But comparing the two teams' young assets, I think you've got to list the Blazers' as more talented and deeper. The lakers are in that awful middle-ground of not being crappy enough to get a top 5 pick and not being good enough to be a contender. We're a notch below that, but I'm not entirely convinced that's such a bad thing.
Looking at each team's prospects *or* players they've got signed long-term:
PG: Por - Telfair LA - T. Brown (advantage: Portland)
SG: Por - monya LA - Bryant, Vujacic (ad: LA)
SF: Por - Miles, Outlaw, Krhyapa, Patterson LA - Odom, Walton, Butler (ad: LA)
PF: Por - Zbo LA - Cook (ad: Portland)
C: Por - Ratliff, Pryzbilla, Ha LA - Mihm, Medvendenko (ad: Por)
Draft picks: Por: #4 or #5 LA: #11 or #12 (ad: Por)
I realize this is a very simplistic way of looking at it, but it's a start. Also, this was off the top of my head so I very well may have missed a person or two on LA.
The Lakers are better off because Kobe's a top 10 NBA player. Maybe top 5. And he's still only 26 years old.
They also have Lamar Odom, who's still only 25 and whom I prefer to any player on the Blazers' roster.
Those two players alone make the Lakers in a better position than the Blazers. I don't see any players on the Blazers that are likely to become as good as either of them, let alone both of them.
The Lakers aren't great, and they don't have the depth of prospects that the Blazers do, but their core is just do much better than I would have much more confidence with their roster moving forward than Portland's.
Ed O.
They also have Lamar Odom, who's still only 25 and whom I prefer to any player on the Blazers' roster.
Those two players alone make the Lakers in a better position than the Blazers. I don't see any players on the Blazers that are likely to become as good as either of them, let alone both of them.
The Lakers aren't great, and they don't have the depth of prospects that the Blazers do, but their core is just do much better than I would have much more confidence with their roster moving forward than Portland's.
Ed O.
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Agree except for one thing ... I'd take Zbo over Odom.
Assume for a second that Telfair turns into a top-5 point guard and Zbo goes back to his last-year form. A big stretch I know, but bear with it for a moment. Between those two, you've got two very unique commodities. You can find a swing man that will give you similar skills, albeit on a lower level, as Kobe, but it's much harder to find a point/low block combination like TF and Zbo. Combine that with Portland's dearth of young players and better draft pick and I think it makes for at the very least an interesting debate.
I also think that as long as Odom is on the same court as Kobe, LA will never realize his full abilities.
Assume for a second that Telfair turns into a top-5 point guard and Zbo goes back to his last-year form. A big stretch I know, but bear with it for a moment. Between those two, you've got two very unique commodities. You can find a swing man that will give you similar skills, albeit on a lower level, as Kobe, but it's much harder to find a point/low block combination like TF and Zbo. Combine that with Portland's dearth of young players and better draft pick and I think it makes for at the very least an interesting debate.
I also think that as long as Odom is on the same court as Kobe, LA will never realize his full abilities.
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We usually agree, Ed, but I'm not sure that I'm with you on this one.Ed O said:
4 of their starting 5 - Bryant, Mihm, Odom and Atkins - are about as good as they're going to get. Butler has the most room to grow among the starters, but with Bryant and Odom carrying things, I'm not sure how much he'll get the chance to.
The bench is mostly made up of players either old and tying up cap space (Grant, Divac) or young and so-far underperforming (Cook, Medvedenko, Walton). Brown and Vujacic are wildcards and could develop nicely. George is, well, he's Devean George. It's not the worst bench in the world, but there's certainly no guarantee that it'll get any better. And you've got to believe that Grant, Divac and George are all on the downside of their careers.
The team will be well over the cap for years to come (I'm assuming the cap won't go up $10-15 million over the next couple of years), and despite what you might read from LA columnists, the Lakers have less a chance of signing Ming in 2 years than I have of growing ears this weekend.
This year has so far pointed to the fact that what's good for Kobe is bad for the Lakers. Do you anticipate that changing anytime soon? And unless they can pull a miracle out of the lottery, it doesn't look their draft pick is going to be any better than the Blazers.
At this point, I'd have to say the Blazers have the better opportunity to grow into something better. The only factor that might shift things in their favor are the coaching choices and free agent signings that the two teams enact this summer. But since both are question marks, all I can do is judge by what's on the roster right now. And honestly, the Blazers look a little better to me if you're judging on potential for the future.
Well, IF Telfair's a top-5 PG, then Portland's roster looks a lot better, and he's more valuable than either Odom or Zach... so I'd prefer Portland's roster. I just don't see that happening.sanfranduck said:
I don't see Zach as that uncommon of a commodity, either. Boozer and Brand are two who do very similar things (more defense from Brand, more rebounding from Boozer, and probably a bit more offense from Zach).
You might be right about how Odom + Kobe is less valuable than each of them seperately, but Lamar's been playing the power forward for two years now, and he's playing it pretty darn well. The Lakers, for example, have had Kobe, Caron and Lamar each start all the games in which they've appeared this year. Interestingly, the same thing could be said about Atkins and Mihm, too. Stability doesn't always equal success, I guess.
Ed O.
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Kobe is not nothing without Shaq. He's arguably a top-five player, with or without Shaq. He's better than any player the Blazers have had since Drexler (and he may very well be better than any Blazer since pre-injury Walton, though that's highly debatable).zagsfan20 said:
I also don't see how the Lakers are in worse shape than Portland. They have what the Blazers hope one of their young players becomes: a bonafide, no-doubt-about-it superstar. They also have an excellent complimentary star in Lamar Odom. They just don't currently have a coach capable of getting them to play synergystically.
And they are nearly 10 games better than the Blazers. So, the Blazers need a ton of growth just to catch the Lakers, let alone surpass them. And the Lakers will be drafting in the lottery also, so it's not like they will necessarily be standing still. A good point guard or power forward out of the draft and the Lakers could take a big step forward.
The Lakers definitely fell hard, but let's not get carried away.
The Lakers are without doubt in better shape than the Blazers, but that shouldn't stop us from enjoying their suffering. "The Lakers suck" is a statement that must be shouted from the rooftops, echoed from the canyons, carved in granite and marble for all eternity to see. The Lakers suck, praise the almighty!
The blazers sucking even more is just a local problem of no particular interest to anyone but us diehards.
barfo
The blazers sucking even more is just a local problem of no particular interest to anyone but us diehards.
barfo
LA is also a city that attracts top talent for many different reasons.
Top players have actually said they wont play in Portland.
I think that is very telling!
You think Vince Carter or Kidd would have turned down being a Laker?
Not sure who or what has put such a dark cloud over Portland but damn, the Trailblazers can't get good press anywhere.
The negative national perception of the Blazers may be the biggest obstacle to getting that franchise turned around.
Top players have actually said they wont play in Portland.
I think that is very telling!
You think Vince Carter or Kidd would have turned down being a Laker?
Not sure who or what has put such a dark cloud over Portland but damn, the Trailblazers can't get good press anywhere.
The negative national perception of the Blazers may be the biggest obstacle to getting that franchise turned around.
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Top players have also said they wouldn't play in Chicago. I wouldn't say it's particularly telling.YardApe said:
Portland isn't likely to make big free agent strikes, but very few teams are. In the near-decade since the Lakers got Shaquille O'Neal, the only really superstar free agents who switched teams have been Grant Hill and Steve Nash, that I can recall off-hand (Tracy McGrady was not yet a superstar when he went to Orlando). And Nash was highly questionable as a "superstar" in the offseason.
The franchise will "turn around" when they get a combination of good front office decision-making and luck.
No doubt that Kobe has Top-5 talent. That said, great players make their teams better. So far, Kobe's done nothing but, through his selfishness, drag down what should have been a longterm dynasty into becoming a lottery team.
I'm less than impressed.
I'm less than impressed.
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