Professional and College Basketball Forums banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Retired From The Beat
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Blazers need to commit fully

It's really frustrating to watch this team sometimes because I don't understand why we're still seeing Damon Stoudamire, and to very little extent Shareef Abdur-Rahim playing so much.

I can see the need for Reef. We don't have a power forward right now, and giving him PT is out of necessity. Damon on the other hand shouldn't be playing. Period. He should be wearing a suit on the sidelines with Nick and Zach.

I seriously see Damon hurting the young guys. He's holding back the progress of Bassy, he's stealing minutes from Travis and Viktor, and he's messing up our new offense. Not only that, but he won't even be here next year. Playing him makes NO sense.

And to those of you who have given him credit for sticking it out instead of taking himself out of the lineup. I wouldn't applaud him too much. Not at all. Unlike Nick, Damon needs another contract next year. Nick's retiring. Damon is still playing for that contract. He can't afford to sit out the rest of the year.

We need to see MORE of Bassy, T-Law, and Viktor for the rest of the year... Not less. Games like last night really frustrate me as a fan and as a journalist.

Telfair only played 28 minutes... Viktor only played 17 minutes, and Travis only logged 9. It's not in the Blazers best interest to play their guys so little time. What are they trying to do, win games? It would seem stupid to try to do that at this point.

Not only that, but it would seem to me that the team actually plays BETTER when we see more of Bassy, T-Law, and Viktor, and less of Damon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Notice that Damon and Shareef are the guys with contracts which can possibly be moved in Sign-n-Trade during the offseason. This COULD be why they are still playing??? Playing them also keeps the League Office off our backs, instead of fining us for tanking!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,264 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

I've been really puzzled by this too. I guess the thinking is that Damon and SAR give them a chance to win games while ALSO playing the youngsters, but I just don't buy it.

Damon has played 35+ minutes all season, and look at our record. SAR has a long history of NOT lifting young, losing teams out of the doledrums. these two aren't going to win us very many more games playing beside the youngsters.

I'd also add Ratliff to the list. given his injuries of late, why not just bench him and play Ha behind Przybilla?

our lineup:
Telfair, Damon (or a 10 day contract guy if Damon squawks) (PG)
Outlaw, Miles (SG)
Miles, Khryapa (SF)
Khryapa, SAR (PF)
Przybilla, Ha (C)

that's an 8 or 9 man rotation. yeah, it's a recipe for losing, but at least it gets youngsters out there in the game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,264 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

RedHot&Rolling said:
Notice that Damon and Shareef are the guys with contracts which can possibly be moved in Sign-n-Trade during the offseason. This COULD be why they are still playing??? Playing them also keeps the League Office off our backs, instead of fining us for tanking!
I suppose, but as the losses continue to pile up are these two guys really becoming more desireable to other teams?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

I hear ya, Nate. I agree. But on the other hand, as RedHot&Rolling suggested, they may be playing Damon and SAR to keep their trade value up. Honestly, I only see SAR as having any real value though. Damon helps his one night, then hurts it the next night. The league knows what they would get in Damon, so playing him isn't going go change his value.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

RedHot&Rolling said:
Notice that Damon and Shareef are the guys with contracts which can possibly be moved in Sign-n-Trade during the offseason. This COULD be why they are still playing??? Playing them also keeps the League Office off our backs, instead of fining us for tanking!
IMO, you're right on target on both accounts. If the Blazers want to get good value for either Damon or Shareef in a sign-and-trade, these guys have to play and have to put up good numbers. I think you're also correct that the league wouldn't take kindly to sitting two healthy starters for the final 20 games or so. NVE and Patterson are "injured" and sitting on the IR. The league's not inclined to raise much fuss about either one. DA's back is a recurring issue so the league isn't likely to comment about him not playing due to a "tight back". Sitting two healthy starting players, however, would be a tough pill for anyone to swallow. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of these guys go down with an "injury" when Patterson comes back off the IR. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,320 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

One other thought, since Damon isn't really a SG (he's not really a PG either, but I guess we already know that), the league couldn't say much about relegating him to the backup PG spot and giving the minutes at SG to Outlaw and Frahm. I'm getting real tired of watching Damon try to guard guys who are 8 inches taller than him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,046 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

I don't understand the policy of fining a team for not playing its veterans. If a team has committed to rebuilding, and giving its young guys playing time, why should it be forced to play its older players? That only defeats the purpose.

If the Blazers traded away all of their veterans for young guys, the NBA would not fine them. So why fine them for sitting their veterans?

Portland has a long-range plan. They are turning the ship around, but it takes time. The first step is developing the younger players. Surely the NBA can understand this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,408 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

NateBishop3 said:
It's really frustrating to watch this team sometimes because I don't understand why we're still seeing Damon Stoudamire, and to very little extent Shareef Abdur-Rahim playing so much.
Really don't get it, Nate? It's simple. The Blazers want to be able to sign-and-trade either Abdur-Rahim or Stoudamire this summer, or both, and to do that, they have to draw the interest of other teams. This season has long since stopped being about "this season", it's all about "next season."

The Blazers are hoping a team in need of a reliable power forward will see Abdur-Rahim's string of double-doubles and games of 20 or more points and be convinced he's worth giving someone up for. Since Abdur-Rahim has had some injury trouble, he needs to have a solid showing for the end of the season. I'm not sure it's working, though - it's definitely proving to the NBA that Abdur-Rahim gets no friggin' foul calls (not exactly a selling point).

As for Damon, I think he's making his case as a solid PG who'll make his free throws, can knock down open shots, and is willing to work his butt off on defense, even when he's overmatched by an opponent's size. Still, if I were management, I'd be tempted to sit Damon, so that I'd be sure he'd finish the season with the #1 FT % in the league.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,938 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Talkhard said:
I don't understand the policy of fining a team for not playing its veterans. If a team has committed to rebuilding, and giving its young guys playing time, why should it be forced to play its older players? That only defeats the purpose.

If the Blazers traded away all of their veterans for young guys, the NBA would not fine them. So why fine them for sitting their veterans?

Portland has a long-range plan. They are turning the ship around, but it takes time. The first step is developing the younger players. Surely the NBA can understand this.
Back in the early 80's (I know - go back to sleep, Gramps!), the NBA was urging professionalism by ALWAYS having teams try to win. Some teams were intentionally losing games to secure a better draft pick. In those days the order of the draft was the opposite of League finish. Thus, came the Lottery in 1985 because of this problem. The NBA wants an image of teams always "PLAYING TO WIN" and not trying to rebuild by losing. It is a fine line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,264 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Schilly and others pretty much convinced me to bide my time and not whine too much about playing Damon and Nick before the trade deadline. I could see the wisdom in it. looking back in hindsight, though, it looks to me like we should've benched them (and SAR) months ago.

I can still see playing SAR some. maybe even starting him (but limiting his minutes)--Miles and Khryapa are both a little undersized at the 4.

but there's not a coach in the NBA who is going to have their opinion changed on Damon by the end of the year. every coach has had a chance to exploit Damon's crappy defense for seven long years as a Blazer. anyone with hoops knowledge can see that in our two best recent seasons, Pippen and Greg Anthony were the key guys running the offense, not Damon.

Damon's averaged 38 minutes a game (all in losses) over the last three games. it just doesn't make any sense.
 

·
Retired From The Beat
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

I honestly don't take too much issue with SAR playing though. If we had another pf I could see it, but since we don't I'm not complaining.

It's Damon that I hate to see on the court right now. Not just because I dislike Damon, but because I see him hurting our team in so many ways. I didn't really go into this in my first post, so I'll explain it more now.

I see Damon hurting our team in three ways right now:

1). He's slowing Bassy's learning process. If you've watched Damon and Bassy on the floor a lot together, you've noticed that Bassy defers to Damon most of the time. He'll either let Damon bring the ball up the floor (which makes zero sense), or he'll bring it up and then pass to Damon who is standing around the perimeter.

And when he passes to Damon it's not for a shot, or any kind of offensive purpose, it's just so that Damon can touch the ball. This is the inherent problem with having another point guard in the 2 spot. They want to touch the ball too much. Damon is used to having it in his hands. This is a huge disadvantage to Telfair.

For whatever reason he is defering to Damon. Whether it's because Damon is older, or maybe because Bassy feels bad because Damon was the starting point guard. Either way, it's causing him to give up the ball, which he would not do in a regular offensive set.

I think for Bassy to be successful as a point guard he has to bring the ball up and then break down the defense. Whether it's running the pick and roll, cutting to the hoop and kicking out for a shot, or finding a cutter, he HAS to have the ball in his hands 90% of the time. Damon is probably cutting that time in half.

2) The second problem with having Damon in the lineup is how it's effecting our team on both offense and defense. On offense he isn't playing the 2 spot like a Richie Frahm or even a Derek Anderson would. He doesn't cut, he doesn't move without the ball. He stands around on the perimeter and waits for the ball to swing to him. This isn't effective in the least.

On defense his obvious lack of size is creating matchup problems for the Blazers. Every team they face exploits him. But you all knew that already.

3) He's taking away minutes from people who could use them. Whether it's Outlaw, Khyrapa, or Frahm, Damon is the LAST person who should be playing right now. He won't be here next season. Outlaw and Viktor WILL be here. Why not see if they can at least try to play the shooting guard spot? It's stupid.

Finally, address the trade value subject. Reef has trade value. Damon does not. Nobody is going to trade for this guy. They might sign him to the MLE. That's it. He won't be getting anything over 4.5, you can almost guarantee it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
949 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

It makes sense to me. If our young guys are to develop, they need to play within a somewhat realistic team system. You put Telfair, Outlaw, Miles, Vic, and Ha, you lose without really gaining much. These guys aren't going to learn the NBA game. They're going to take a major hit in confidence department.

By intermixing some Rahim and Stoudamire, they can run plays better. Rahim can get the ball to his open teammates when doubled, Damon won't hesitate to take the open J, etc ...

I mean let's be real. Outlaw isn't a shooting guard (atleast not yet). He doesn't have the handles needed to get out of a fix if necessary, or to create for himself. His shot is still unreliable. Telfair needs some vets to be working with and not other players still trying to work on their games.

Secondly, Rahim has helped his stock rise immensely. He wouldn't have been able to do this surrounded by a summer league team.

Now, it shouldn't take the rest of the season, for Outlaw, Vic, and Telfair to learn positioning, shot selection, etc ... , so I would think we would soon see Rahim and Stouds' minutes begin to decrease.
 

·
Retired From The Beat
Joined
·
2,454 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

This isn't really about Reef though. This is about Damon. Damon is killing this team. I would rather see DA start than Damon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,001 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

theWanker said:
Damon's averaged 38 minutes a game (all in losses) over the last three games. it just doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, but... Damon missed that one game, and how did things turn out?

Um. I mean...

Ed O.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,509 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Ed O said:
Yeah, but... Damon missed that one game, and how did things turn out?

Um. I mean...

Ed O.
This got me thinking about Damon's play in wins versus losses. Check this out, all per 48 minutes.

In wins:
22.3 pts, 9.2 assists, .403 fg%, .423 3pt%, 2.1 turnovers

In losses:
22.7 pts, 7.1 assists, .393 fg%, .371 3pt%, 3.0 turnovers

By comparison, Telfair's numbers:

In wins:
21.9 pts, 7.1 assists, .452 fg%, .571 3pt%, 5.1 turnovers

In losses:
15.8 pts, 8.1 assists, .335 fg%, .091 3pt%, 4.6 turnovers

To me, Damon's play is fairly irrelevant to our winning and losing. He can be replaced by any number of guys. But looking at Telfair's numbers really shows a big difference. Telfair seems to help us win when he's taking the ball to the basket (resulting in the higher fg%) and passing less. His turnovers don't even really seem to matter. In wins, Telfair gets to the line about 1.5 times more per 48 minutes. (6.8 compared to Damon's 3.8 per 48 minutes) Telfair's shots per game are the same in wins and losses. True, part of the increase in his fg% is the increased three point percentage, but he doesn't take that many, even in wins. He needs to create his own shots and NOT be a pass first pg.

Take the ball to the hoop Sebastian!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,819 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Haven't we showcased Damon and SAR enouh this year? I think most GM's know what your going to get out of each. I don't think they can really improve or decrease their stock much right now. Just let Law start over Damon so we can actually be height proportional to the other teams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,264 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

one other question I have--

wouldn't we be better advised to develop the young guys we have in hopes of packaging a swing man or two for a better player?

if Khryapa and Outlaw continue to look good, a package of one of them and SAR starts to sound pretty darned appealing to a team looking to make noise in the playoffs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
731 Posts
Re: Blazers need to commit fully

Crimson,

You make the mistake of coming to the situation without an answer already in hand, and then you use reason to understand events. Doing this sort of thing repeatedly is very often going to put you at odds with many posters here. Come on fella, get with the program and type the same sort of stuff that everyone else is typing!
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top